CA glue a Baldwin

[Alan Barnard]

Nonsense (respectfully to others who may have different, albeit, wacked-out
views <G>), since this piano has a pinblock that will not hold, the
pinblock is not part of a "good piano" at this point.

Remove or carefully cover the action (cover the keybed, anyway, if action
is removed) and carefully pour it in. Have materials ready to sop up any
drips. Use a hypo-oiler or some other means to carefully control flow and
placement. HAVE ACETONE WITHIN EASY REACH. Open windows and/or set up a
small fan to blow the stuff away from your face. Warn the customer, but
explain that when dry it has no odor. Usually better to go over all the
pins several times in smaller applications than to create Lake Erie around
each one. PUT DOWN A TARP or something to cover flooring and carpets. It
HAS been known to wander and drip and will ruin a carpet DAMHIK.

You can tune it shortly after treatment if the pins weren't too, too bad,
but they will be much tighter the second or third day so I'd make a second
trip if it isn't a six-hour drive.

If you do wait a day or two be prepared for what otherwise can be a
frightning phenomenon: Tap your hammer to move each pin slightly DOWN
before you tune it. There will be a fairly loud
sounds-like-a-string-breaking crack! as the CA breaks loose from the pin.
Then you can tune normally.

You WILL be amazed at the results. And for all practical purposes I'm not
sure the term "temporary fix" is appropriate. We don't really know how long
this treatment will last because it's only been used for a few years, but I
don't see any weaking yet in my pianos and haven't heard of any CA treated
blocks going south from others, yet either.

Alan Barnard
Salem, Missouri


> [Original Message]
> From: daniel carlton <nannermail at hotmail.com>
> To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Date: 03/07/2006 9:54:40 PM
> Subject: CA glue a Baldwin
>
> i'm considering using CA glue on a small Baldwin (i haven't found a
serial 
> number yet and i didn't measure the piano) but i might guess that it
would 
> be at least 50+. it was rebuilt about 30 years ago. aparently someone
used 
> pin tite or garfields or whatever on it without telling the customer.
> i looked at the piano for the first time last week and many of the notes 
> were very sour. a couple of pins in the bass simply wouldn't stay put.
> i explained the situation to the customer. i told them they could either 
> replace the pinblock or do a temporary fix with CA. i told them it might
or 
> might not work. they wanted to try the CA to see if it could make the
piano 
> tunable until they could save enough money for a new PB.
> so i was reading up on CA since this will be my first time to use it, and
i 
> ran across a message or two that advised against ever using CA on a good 
> grand:
>
> >"Piesik, John (JPIESIK)" wrote:
> >
> > > Dear List,
> > >
> > > Last month I requested info on CA glue for loose tuning pins. It's
only 
> >fair
> > > that I report the results, especially to those who thoughtfully 
> >responded.
> > > And the results are: it worked, and it didn't work. It appears that,
in 
> >my
> > > opinion, CA glue can pull you out of a "slippy" situation, sometimes.
A
> > > couple of the pins I tried it on were so loose that the CA glue was
not
> > > effective. Thus, I muted those strings that wouldn't tune, got my
client
> > > through her Christmas party, and recommended that the next step is a
> > > replacement or rebuild.
> > >
> > > Now, following are some comments, my opinions, of course, regarding
this
> > > matter:
> > >
> > > When a piano is in need of CA glue on more than a few tuning pins,
it's 
> >in
> > > need of a lot more than just CA glue. I would not recommed CA gluing
or
> > > doping an entire pinblock - I shudder at the thought - although, I
know 
> >some
> > > folks do, and that's fine for them. I've learned that there are many 
> >ways to
> > > skin a cat in this business, but, to me, some cats are best left
alone. 
> >(In
> > > order to buy a little more time in an emergency, on a few pins at
best,
> > > then, CA glue may be the ticket. And, there are other ways to solve a 
> >loose
> > > tuning pin problem, too!) But, let's face it, doping an entire
pinblock 
> >is a
> > > bandaid fix.
> > >
> > > It's a funny thing that in the last month I've encountered two more 
> >pianos
> > > (grands) that are not holding tension due to loose pins. I admit I CA 
> >glued
> > > two pins on a Yamaha gray-market piano to "buy some more time", but
the
> > > other was just too far gone. In these cases, I recommended
replacement 
> >or
> > > have them rebuilt (preferably with new PBs). It's apparent that I'm 
> >running
> > > into increasingly more pianos with "loose pin" troubles (are you?). I 
> >don't
> > > think that this is some kind of coincidence, either, and here's why. 
> >Many
> > > pianos were sold to/for boomers during the 50s, 60s and 70s. The 
> >condition
> > > of these pianos, coming from the historical height of US piano sales, 
> >due to
> > > the pianos ages, is now starting to deteriorate (the pianos are now
over 
> >30
> > > years old). I am not a rebuilder, but, I would bet dollars to donuts 
> >that
> > > the piano rebuilding business is going to see a flurry of new work in 
> >the
> > > very near future - if it hasn't already begun. And piano sales will 
> >continue
> > > to increase with even more vigor. (I would someday like to have a
shop 
> >and
> > > become a rebuilder; it's very rewarding work. And, there are not
enough 
> >good
> > > rebuilders - there seems to be plenty of room for more. The Aerospace
> > > industry has a similar problem with more talent leaving or retiring
and 
> >not
> > > enough good talent coming in - but that's a whole other story.)
> > >
> > > Bandaids only hold for so long, then they fall off. Doping pinblocks
is 
> >a
> > > bandaid. Our clients, and thus the piano industry as a whole, in my 
> >opinion,
> > > would benefit from either recommending a new piano or a rebuilt piano
> > > instead of applying a bandaid to a piano beginning its dying cough.
It's 
> >up
> > > to us to gently guide our clients to the right decision. The fact is, 
> >all of
> > > us are going to be encountering more and more of these untunable
pianos. 
> >Do
> > > we squirt CA glue into them and cross our fingers, or do we recommend
a 
> >new
> > > purchase or a rebuild? The bandaid approach, I think, hurts everyone. 
> >The
> > > later recommendation has obvious benefits for our industry, at least
in 
> >my
> > > mind.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> > > Warmest Regards,
> > >
> > > John Piesik, RPT
> > > Piesik's Piano Service
> > > Oceanside, CA
> > > (760) 726-4665
>
> my thought is this: i've explained the sitch to the owners, told them the 
> good and the bad, and that CA is only a temporary fix. they decided to 
> simply give it a try.
>
> if anyone thinks CA might not be a good idea on this particular occasion, 
> let me know.
>
> AND another question...
>
> if i do go ahead with the job, what kind of time am i looking at/what
should 
> i charge?
>
> many thanks
>
> daniel carlton
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
> get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives