ohoh

[Andrew and Rebeca Anderson]

Mr. Potter,
I've worked with a 490ST before and its templates are approximations 
that need to be aurally checked and corrected to better fit the beast 
in front of you.

If you are not getting a good pattern on the high treble, you may 
actually be tuning too high as described by Alan.  The Peterson 
doesn't have a C8 so you would augment C7 by the difference between 
B7 and A#7 (you can find that in the manual tables in the 
back).  This would get C8 stretched consistently to the template you 
chose.  The templates themselves are approximations of vaguely 
defined pianos and will rarely (never) fit perfectly to any piano 
actually in front of you.  Test your intervals and then use the +/- 
buttons to adjust (wish that was a rotary knob).  I eventually went 
to the Veritune VT100 to help me with my pitch corrections and tuning 
test practice.

The Peterson is a fast simple analog tuner that does not listen to 
and analyze the piano you're tuning.  It just rapidly gives you 
interference patterns.  If you want to know how to use it to achieve 
high-quality tunings go to the PTG.ORG bookstore and order "On 
Pitch".  Another book to get is "Different Strokes" which is about 
using your tuning hammer effectively.

There are more possible reason for broken strings: >wrong gage<, too 
rough a hammer technique for the extreme treble, badly corroded 
capo/v-bar, etc.  Did the new string render readily?  Are you rapidly 
overshooting pitch either way in the high treble?

Good luck,
Andrew Anderson





At 08:34 PM 3/12/2006, you wrote:
>Uhhhh .... that machine is, uh, how shall I say it ... not the right 
>tool for the task at hand and very.
>
>I mean no disrespect here, but you've given us very little info 
>about yourself: Do you understand tempered tuning? Inharmonicity? 
>And that sort of thing? Or are you tuning, for example, A's at 27.5, 
>55, 110, 220, 440, 880, 1760, and 3520 Hz (for example)?
>
>Try plucking C8 while playing C7, etc., without the machine. You may 
>do better.
>
>Where do you live?
>
>Alan Barnard
>Salem, MO
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charlie Potter
>Sent: Mar 12, 2006 7:46 PM
>To: Alan Barnard , Pianotech List
>Subject: Re: ohoh
>
>Hi Allen Thanks for the info. My hearing probably isnt that good 
>anymore but I use a peterson 490st to assist my ears.I am finding it 
>hard to use the peterson on the very low or high octave.I know the 
>string is correct.I will try your advive Monday.Thanks again,Charlie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:tune4u at earthlink.net>Alan Barnard
>To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>Pianotech List
>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:31 PM
>Subject: Re: ohoh
>
>Not without more information ... but unless the string was replaced 
>with wire that is too heavy (can't reach pitch without breaking) 
>then you are definitely tuning it sharp. Not just a little sharp but 
>wayyyy sharp.
>
>Are you tuning by ear or with an electronic device?
>
>Do your treble octaves sound right to you up to the last one?
>
>One "trick" to better hear treble tuning is to press the sustain 
>pedal and slowly play a two-octave, arppegiated chord leading up to 
>the top note of the chord--the note you are checking--but pausing a 
>couple of seconds before playing that last note, i.e., hearing it in 
>your mind first then sounding it to see if it is sharp are flat or 
>where your head said it should be.
>
>It is possible, especially at the extreme ends of the piano, to have 
>notes off by a fourth or fifth so they still sound okay (sort of) 
>but not at the octave.
>
>For example, your high C may actually be, let's say, an augmented 
>4th above C, so it sounds lousy but the customer in his ear wants to 
>hear it pulled up to a perfect 5th. You try it and poingggggg.
>
>When in doubt, turn those high note pins down, down, down, until you 
>are clearly flat of the octave, then slowly tune it up. Don't keep 
>cranking upwards if you are not sure where the string pitch is.
>
>Often, it is MUCH easier to hear the true pitch of high strings with 
>a finger or thumb nail instead of wanging them with the hammer. It 
>eliminates a lot of the "woody" sound of the hammer and heightens 
>the fundamental of the string.
>
>You mentioned being "of a certain age" (it's a big club) and I'm 
>wondering how your hearing is at that end of the piano. If you don't 
>have an ETD but do have hearing loss at higher frequencies, you may 
>need to bite the bullet and buy one. For what it's worth, I like 
>Tunlab on my PocketPC because it is more affordable than others, has 
>everything I need, and has a built in spectrum analyzer that REALLY 
>helps you see what's going on in those top octaves.
>
>Hope it helps.
>
>Alan Barnard
>Salem, MO
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charlie Potter
>Sent: Mar 12, 2006 11:03 AM
>To: Pianotech List
>Subject: ohoh
>
>I am a newbe-wanabee and an old man. I am learning to tune pianos. I 
>have done 1 ok. On the second  a Kawai I have broken the last string 
>c88 2 times because the owner says it isnt pitched high enough.Could 
>anyone tell me what I am doing wrong,Charlie
>
>Salem, Missouri
>
>----------
>_______________________________________________
>Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
>
>
>
>
>Salem, Missouri
>_______________________________________________
>Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives

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