How To Choose an ETD was ... something else

[John M. Formsma]

Bob,

You wrote:
<< Is the question, "Which method produces the best tunings?" 
or "Which method produces the best tunings for the most tuners?">>  

Good point. It is true we can often find ourselves "arguing" about two or
more different things. And I agree that an ETD can be a useful learning tool
when the student doesn't have a mentor to observe his work. But I would say
let's not let our learning stop at the ETD level.

I began doing part time work with the SAT II in 1991, and didn't know much
about anything other than unisons. Looking back on it, maybe I didn't know
much about that either. ;-)  Then, in 1999-2000, under the good instruction
of Leonard Gustafson, RPT, I began to learn to tune aurally. For a time, I
used the SAT II in conjunction with tuning aurally, but soon learned what to
listen for and put the machine away. It was very difficult, but I persisted
and it finally began to make sense. I'd hate to see anyone not go past that
point of everything "clicking" and making sense. Not persisting through that
point might make it necessary for some dependency on ETDs. That, in my
opinion, makes some unable to really hear the small differences that turn a
good, solid tuning into a delightful musical experience.

Only by constant comparison of beat rates, sound swell and decay, etc. was
it possible to expand my ear/mind to learn to hear the slightest whisper of
difference between the various intervals. Whereas, if I'd continued to use
the SAT II, I would not have been able to tell the difference.

The Verituner 100 is a good machine, and my only regret in using it for 1.5
years is that I became a lazy listener. It was way too easy to let the
machine make decisions for me. When I woke up and started listening again, I
realized that I could do better, especially in making the more important
intervals sound better: e.g., the 15ths, 12ths, and even 4ths on certain
smaller pianos. (Maybe this is not the experience of other ETD users.)

So, all that to say...that aural work is a better fit for me. I realize that
I have only my own experience to go on, and that is a poor and inadequate
determinant of absolute "correctness." I say if a person realizes that he
tunes better with a machine, "more power to you." But I realize that I don't
tune as well with a machine. The differences are slight, and most of my
customers probably can't tell the difference (I can). For me, it's about
squeezing out the most musicality from the piano.

John Formsma

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Bob Hull
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:54 PM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: Re: RE : How To Choose an ETD was ... something else

Marcel, John, David,

I agree with much of what you are saying about the
need for the use of aural tuning methods. Is the
question, "Which method produces the best tunings?" 
or "Which method produces the best tunings for the
most tuners?"  or "Which method teaches you the most?"
 or ....   "What is best for me?"  Of course this has
been discussed heavily for years.

There have been some formal comparison tests in the
past between aural and ETD.  I think it was carried
out by Jim Coleman and Virgil Smith.  Did that reveal
a slight edge for the aural method?  But, that's just
between those two people if so.  

It sounds like David is saying aural is the best and
yet you said the ETD shows the ideal - 
"If the machine is actually used as a teaching
tool---to SHOW somebody visually how close or far they
are from ideal, and let their body note that
info---then  I say what an incredible tool; what an
ear and perception enhancer."  

The combination of aural practice, checking against
ETD and studying good tuning material such as On Pitch
by Rick Baldassin can be a great help.  It's too bad
that so much of our experience is gained "solo"
without the frequent evaluation and input of a
experienced friend or mentor.


For me, I improved my aural tuning skills while using
the SAT II.  I was able to pass the RPT tuning exam
aurally with a score just one point shy of CTE level. 
Maybe I would have done even better if I had done more
aural and less etd during my first couple of years
tuning.  



Bob Hull


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org 
> > [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
> David Andersen
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 1:10 PM
> > To: Pianotech
> > Subject: Re: How To Choose an ETD was ...
> something else
> > 
> > 
> > Folks---note the difference; Don says "if used
> properly,"  Ed 
> > says "who starts relying on" the ubiquitous ETD. 
> And there's 
> > the rub: I believe it's up to the individual, and
> his/her 
> > mentor, the degree to which the student, from the
> beginning, 
> > replaces or augments the function of the ear with
> the machine.  
> > 
> > If the machine is actually used as a teaching
> tool---to SHOW 
> > somebody visually how close or far they are from
> ideal, and 
> > let their body note that info---then  I say what
> an 
> > incredible tool; what an ear and perception
> enhancer.  
> > 
> > If, however, the machine is used as a substitute
> for
> > listening, as something like paint-by-the-numbers,
> where 
> > you're just filling in where you're told to, I
> believe it can 
> > hurt an essential learning function of the
> students' body and 
> > being; further, I think it can---CAN---lead to a
> steady 
> > lessening of the students' ability to truly listen
> with the 
> > whole body in a relaxed way, which, to me, is the
> fundamental 
> > component of doing world-class piano work.
> > 
> > If you're a young (or young at heart) passionate,
> committed 
> > student if piano technology, why wouldn't you want
> to learn 
> > how to use your ears in the most taxing, intimate,
> and 
> > focused way? You would, if you wanted to wring the
> maximum 
> > benefit from your learning.  That's why I believe
> every 
> > serious student of piano technology who wants to
> be a 
> > working, every-day pianotech will be best served
> by learning 
> 
=== message truncated ===



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