Tokiwa vs Renner underlever kits

[Mark Dierauf]

Thanks Dale, that background information from the factory is heartening
to hear. I think that I'll give the Tokiwa kit a shot for my next
install. I have otherwise found their repetitions to be not only of high
quality but also a better fit than the Renners. This current project has
Brooks' reps, shanks & flanges with which I am extremely happy. 
 
I tried using a cardboard shim behind the pivot blocks, but the bass end
would have needed two shims, and I wasn't comfortable with that. Besides
I had already made a new set of blocks once for this job to allow for
improved geometry - using the old ones would have placed the pivot pins
too close to the upper edge of the new tray - so I was all set up for
turning out another block quickly.
 
- Mark Dierauf
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Servinsky [mailto:tompiano at bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:01 AM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: Re: Tokiwa vs Renner underlever kits
 
Dale said;
----- Origina By the way the New Tokiwa wippens for Steinway are a
spitting image of the Renner part provided by the Steinway N.Y factory.
I have a set on the shelf. They are beautiful & I am installing this set
soon in a Stwy D. I have compared them side by side with the Renner
parts & you cannot tell the difference except the Tokiwa parts have a
number conveinently located on the repitition lever.l Message ----- 
 
Dale,
Ditto on the Tokiwa wippens. I have installed about 1/2 dozen sets and
have had great results.
Tom Servinsky
 

 
  Hi Mark
   I have installed many Renner parts but not as of yet the Tokiwa kit
however I plan to make it my next install choice. I have looked closely
at the parts & have samples. It's good to have more than one choice.
Right?
   In the past....far past ,Tokiwa parts, as you alluded to, had seizing
pin/parts problems.  I spoke with Randy Morton at length this past
summer about my pinning concerns. The short story is that the problem
was a procedural one at Tokiwa which took a while for the Management at
Tokiwa to acknowledge.  IN the process of Randy proving the problem to
them they built new test equipment which quickly caused the parts to
seize up after about 2 to 3 thousand repetitions.   ummm!  well...    
     After this encounter Randy hired the engineer that literally wrote
the book on Yamaha flange pinning technique and brought him to Tokiwa
book and all, where he employed the tried & true Yamaha materials &
techniques & for many years now.
  This was good for me to know.  The fastest way to loose money is to
use parts that have problems that can only be solved by our
free/expensive labor to ....do over! 
  Also next time you need more sos tab clearance why not use a cardboard
shim on the rear of the old blocks.
  By the way the New Tokiwa wippens for Steinway are a spitting image of
the Renner part provided by the Steinway N.Y factory.  I have a set on
the shelf. They are beautiful & I am installing this set soon in a Stwy
D. I have compared them side by side with the Renner parts & you cannot
tell the difference except the Tokiwa parts have a number conveinently
located on the repitition lever.
  FWIW
 Cheers
  Dale
Does anyone out there have recent comparative experience with BOTH the
Renner and Tokiwa damper back-action kits? I've installed several of the
Renner kits, but the quality of the pinning of this last one left a lot
to be desired. As you can see in the photo the post pinning was
substantially out of square. The flange pinning of this particular
underlever was also off, but in the opposite direction, which had the
effect of throwing the post even farther out of alignment. This was
probably the worst example in the set, but many others were off by
lesser amounts. I'm thinking that I might try the Tokiwa kit next time,
but I've had problems with seizing centers on other Tokiwa parts in the
past, and as a result I am reluctant to use them in general.
 
Renner has also switched from beech to Delignit  for the tray material,
so be careful if you're drilling for the flange screws using their
countersinking bit - I snapped one of the screws off due to the higher
density! Next time I'll ream the holes out a few thousandths more. The
other lesson that I learned on this one is to check the horizontal
clearance between the backside of the post and the upstop rail. Since
the new style sprung sostenuto tab flanges extend slightly behind the
post they were rubbing on this particular example, which I corrected by
making new pivot blocks with the hole located about 1/32" farther from
the belly rail.
 
- Mark Dierauf
 
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