Will,
What has 3 eyes, and 19 fingers? Two old fa*** in a piano shop. I think we're both saying safety first. I've gotten very serious about safety in the last 10 years or so and would love to see the subject pursued on a thread. I hope I'm corrected on some of this and learn something.
More on the router in this inherently dangerous procedure.
Router should be:
Variable speed ( I think this bit is limited to about 12000 rpm )
2 handles
An additional safety feature depending on your preference is a foot operated switch.
Also, on the subject of ear, eyes, and lung.
This stuff is critical not just to protect these three body parts but for overall quality and safety. Think about a guy using a grinder with no eye protection, he closes his eyes and looks away from the work and he grinds away. How do I know that? 8 years ago I had a piece of wire off the wire wheel pulled out of my eye. Face shield for this stuff, a good one. Safety promotes quality work because your environment becomes controlled and you can see and focus on your work with out being scared of what your doing. I was in the hospital a few months ago with a respiratory infection that went into pneumonia that started to affect my heart, all from working in someone else's shop for a few days with filthy air and no mask. I can't fool around with this stuff anymore or I'm done. I'm putting in a cyclone with .5 micron filters as per Terry F. recommendation from ClearVue Cyclones.
You've got to have rules like:
Never leave a band saw running while you go do something else, you don't hear it because the vacs on, you don't see the blade because it's moving. Don't clear the pieces off the table till the blade stops. I love power tools, I enjoy overcoming the potential danger by learning how to safely use the tool.
With a lot of tools the most dangerous thing the tool can do is kick back, knowing and understanding how that happens and how to avoid it will greatly increase safety.
I'm done. For now.
Fenton
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Truitt
To: 'Pianotech List'
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: More pinblock stuff
Hi Fenton:
Your points are well taken and your list of safety measures good advice for that tool and a great many others. I’ll simply say for myself that I will choose to stay on the other side of the power cord on this one and leave it at that.
Ed qualifies as a REAL MAN in my book. He probably eats nails for breakfast.
Speaking of employees, I once had an employee miss 3 days of work because of an accident he incurred changing a light bulb. Yep. Instead of going downstairs and getting the ladder, he grabbed the old piano bench to stand on – you know, the claw foots that you spin around to raise or lower the seat. While reaching the bulb, the bench spun and he fell, breaking his fall with his wrists and spraining both of them.
Let the light bulb jokes begin. Oh hell, I’ll start.
How many shop employees does it take to change a light bulb? Three – one to try to change the bulb, and two to carry the stretcher.
See Fenton – I’m not paranoid, they are out to get me!
Will
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fenton Murray
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:36 AM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: Re: More pinblock stuff
Will,
With all respect, there is nothing wrong with the tool. The problems with having employees, I agree with. As far as letting them use the tool, probably not. The table saw is no less dangerous. Not to open the conversation to fire arms but I think the analogy applies. The danger is in the unskilled operator and if warning bells are going off it is with good reason, if you're not comfortable with operating this then don't. There aren't many power tools in my shop that won't eat me if I don't pay attention. I see these kids at the lumber store using a 12" radial arm saw and I cringe. Might as well give someone a gun and tell them to go play.
So let me qualify my recommendation of this tool. If you are not skilled in it's operation and do not understand and respect basic power tool safety, DON"T USE POWER TOOLS. My recommendation only, far be it from me to tell people what they should or shouldn't do.
Some basic safety rules regarding the use of this tool would include but not necessarily be limited to.
Free and clear work area.
Eye, ear and lung safety gear.
Electrical cord free and clear.
Check router collett and tighten and check cutter.
Cutter needs to be sharp.
Use both hands.
Run at proper speed.
No climbing cuts. ( make sure router is loading itself into the bearing, not trying to climb out of the cut.)
Do not move until the router stops, then remove router bit from the cut.
If a power cord snags, release trigger and wait for router to stop.
If your uncomfortable with your position or have to reposition your stance as you work across the stretcher, stop the router and wait for it to stop.
This is an advanced level tool and operation and not for beginners. But it works great. I think it's way safer than trying to demo with a skill saw, that baby will kick out of there.
All this being said, I am definitely going to try spirit removal. (Exorcism)
Man I'm long winded.
BTW, Ed said he went back to the pinblock finished it's removal. Did he use the router?
Ed, are you going to give up on the Bolduc cutter, or stick with it?
Fenton
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Truitt
To: 'Pianotech List'
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:35 AM
Subject: RE: More pinblock stuff
Hi Fenton:
I think that what scares me about this tool is that there simply is no margin for error, ever. It only respects perfect technique at ALL times, and is going to spank you in unforeseen and possibly dire ways if you do not execute perfect technique – Ed’s accident proves my point.
Some questions I would ask myself: Would you allow an employee to use this tool (if you had one)? A family member?
I used to have a couple of employees in my business. As the owner/manager of my business, I (properly I think) considered myself my most valuable asset to my business because of my developed skill set and level of responsibilities. I would never have allowed an employee to use such a tool – the time savings are simply not worth the consequences of failed execution. If the employee has an accident, I can guarantee that the labor board, OSHA, the insurance company; none of those people are going to be understanding. Your Workman’s Comp will be canceled or go through the roof, OSHA would slap big fines on you, the employee is out of work for a week, etc. etc. So, if I am not willing to risk an employee (who has less value to my business than me), why would I be willing to risk myself?
Most accidents that any of us have are the result of simple stupidity, but they happen anyway. Why tempt fate when Murphy is always nearby?
If the tool had (God Forbid) instead ricocheted into his face and took out an eye, the consequences for him would be far worse in terms of work loss and loss of income. Does Ed have Disability Insurance? Is his health insurance adequate? (I’m asking these as rhetorical questions).
Paul’s comment, “That tool is wonderful but damned scary; everytime I turn it on I feel like "this could be the last one”, says it all for me – the warning flags are up, the horns are beeping, and the robot is going off, “Danger, Danger, Will Robinson – alien life forms approaching!!!”.
I make no pretense as to being a lawyer, but I would not even consider selling or manufacturing such a tool for reasons of liability. If companies can get sued and lose such suits for items seemingly as innocuous as toys, what chance would a tool maker have in a court with this tool? I cannot imagine that it has met any safety standards that our regulatory agencies would consider adequate.
As such, I do not think it wise to advocate the use of this tool to anyone. Individually, you are free to assume the risk if you so choose.
In my hierarchy of risk, I’d much rather wack on the stretcher with the mallot.
Respectfully,
Will Truitt
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fenton Murray
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:10 PM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: Re: More pinblock stuff
Continuing on this thread of safety and with good wishes to Ed. This tool is not dangerous if used correctly. Even thinking about removing it from the cut before stopping invites serious kick back. So, it's about following some safety rules. Studying the safe operation of tools before using them will make you a safe operator. I'd agree with you will that safety rule #1 is "mind fresh and concentration is good". I use this tool and love it. The more probable screw up with this tool is cutting some piano you didn't want turned into sawdust.
Fenton
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Truitt
To: 'Pianotech List'
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: More pinblock stuff
Everyone to their pleasure and acceptable level of risk. I would add only that if I were going to be using this tool – or any like tool greatly worthy of respect and caution – do so early in your work day when your mind is fresh and your concentration is good, not late in the day when you are tired and your awareness is flagging. For me, I’ll still pass on this baby.
Will Truitt
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of paulrevenkojones at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:53 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: More pinblock stuff
Before everyone goes off the deep end on this, this tool is immensely useful, practical, fast, and precise. But it's extremely dangerous just as any unwisely used tool is; a tuning hammer won't kill you, but if used improperly can slowly kill your joints. The router blade is big, the speeds are high, and the torque is surprising every time. It takes a great deal of concentration.
Others' really regrettable injuries are simply further proof of the object lessons of proper and improper tool use. We're all really lucky that Ed's still with us to share the knowledge and warnings.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Truitt <surfdog at metrocast.net>
To: 'Pianotech List' <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 4:40 am
Subject: RE: More pinblock stuff
Indeed. That’s why I never bought one. I can still remember the route r blade digging into my jeans and thigh whilst mounted and running years ago when I was free handing whatever it was at the time. One of those “This is stupid “ realizations about ½ second before I showed myself WHY it’s stupid and dangerous to be doing it that way. Wanna see my scar?
Will Truitt
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of paulrevenkojones at aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:21 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: More pinblock stuff
Ummm, Ed, I'm glad you're still with us. That tool is wonderful but damned scary; everytime I turn it on I feel like "this could be the last one"...:-). High anxiety and high awareness!
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: A440A at aol.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: More pinblock stuff
David writes:
<< on a B where the bass/tenor transition is
curved, I'd be curious to know how others do it-especially that
bass/tenor transition area-that is, short of having one of those super duper
fancy contour duplicating machines. >>
Band saw to shape, blue chalk, grinder bit in a hand-held router. Index mark
on bottom of block and plate so it goes back to the same place each time.
Speaking of routers, it may be useful to remember when cutting the
pinblock free with the Bolduc piloted saw blade, that if you happen to turn it
off and set the tool down while it is still spinning, it can still grab the
edge of one's shorts and bury itself in the top of one's thigh. (Last Monday,
5 internal sutures, 12 more to close).
It could have been a lot worse, but it did take the edge off the week...
Ed Foote RPT
http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
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