[pianotech] Repeat of Question about damping problems with Steinway L

[Will Truitt]

Thanks Dale for your additional input.  You are a fine fellow!  I hope all the comments given by you and others will be grist for the mill for many others who are following this thread.  The problem pianos may be a pain in the butt, but they are also the opportunity to learn and deepen our understanding of what is really going on.  If we are willing to bend to the task, it makes us better.  

 

Will

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of erwinspiano at aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:41 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Repeat of Question about damping problems with Steinway L

 

 

 

Dale, since this was a Teflon action, the new Tokiwa underlevers are longer than the originals, so yes, this would be a longer lever.  I duplicated the 3, 2, 1, 0 leading scale of the original set, so all that lead will sit further out and farther from the pivot as you suggest.  As for the WHUMP, it is prominent when I hold the tray up with my hand and release it, hard or soft.  Again, noticeably more so than the average bear.  I will take this to mean that, all else being equal, the difference in the length of the underlever will make damping worse if the lever is longer, yes?.

  The new lever is longer & it's now located so the underlevers/top lange hanging correctly & directly under the damper head. The longer portion of the flange extends further back toward the belly rail, so it may be closer to the tray pivot than it was before, but perhaps not enough. Also you have the nose of the under lever resting on an appropriate spot on the key felt right? so everything is loc ated correctly except.....
   The tray pivot is still not in line with the underlever pins. Yamaha's and many other piano have the pins in line. The result is the pedal feel is not as stif, the whump goes away or is reduced & the usual upstop rail adjustment compromises are resolved. 
   Relocating the pins is a bit tricky but you are a bright fellow. In a case like this where you will need to pull out all stops to mitigate the noisy piano syndrome,this may be advisable. 

Your comment that you believe that sufficient damping is not possible without springs and some spring tension seems particularly worth noting. 
  Absolutely 

The older Steinway L’s had return springs through most of the scale, as did other models.  Yet this Teflon baby did not have them, and what would be so different between the older and the new to justify their exclusion?  

  Good question

Since the damper tray is sitting in my shop right now, I have the bag of springs that came with the kit and a Corex tension gauge; I take that to mean that your suggestion would be therefore for me to go ahead and install and adjust the tension of the springs.  I’ve done that before, it is not hard and does not take long. 
  Yes 
    My only question would be:  Should I retain the leading as is, along with the springs, or remove some? 
  I think I would tend toward duplicating the leading pattern of an older L.
  Between the leading and the spring, I don’t want to overload the string at the nodal point – I am thinking here of the issues we can have in verticals with too strong damper springs.  So your suggested protocol would be appreciated.     

  Excessive damper spring tension is uneeded but I do tend to add a bit more to the mono-chords. Short,Fat stiff, single wrapped strings are noisy & difficult to stop. All that's needed is enough spring affect to reduce the amount of time the damper seems to bounce around upon reentering the string contact area. The spring/lead gravity are the energy sources at work here. Balancing them will be an experiment as will the felt length.

 

I am sensitive to your remarks about damper length.  The old Steinways often had pretty short  dampers but damped extremely well.  The felt is much longer on the newer ones.  My practice has always been to duplicate the lengths of the felt, which often varied on each end.   I would add my  own little dimestore theory to your comments about the nodal points – I think that the felt on the shorter damper piece will conform better  to the string as it settles onto it and therefore shut it off more quickly than the longer felts.  In fact it is usually my practice to install 4 smaller monochord felts instead of 2  longer ones, I find that the damping is quicker as a result.  I sometimes carry that through the bichords also.  I did this to the monochords on this Steinway, but no cigar.  

  I've done this many times as well. SOmetimes it's more effective then others. Sometime it's jsut finding the right spot for the felt 

As for the tray pin location, it has been long enough that=2 0I cannot remember enough of the details of what I did to relate to you.  I followed the protocol as outlined in the article in the Journal using the jigs I built to establish location and got it dialed in, with the result being that I did not have to do gross wire bending fore and aft or side to side.  

 

Thanks for your comments Dale – very helpful.  

  Thanks Will.  You're welcome.  good Luck
   

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