Flexy S&S D Keys

[Farrell]

> Terry, how did you ascertain that there was <<too much>> flex in the keys 
> ?

My associate called me and said there was. Sorry, that's all I know at this 
point.

> Del,  what is wrong with calling a spade a spade ?  Honestly folks... any 
> <<improvement>> in an actions performance is wholly a result of the users 
> reaction to the change.  There is no inherent improvment.... only a change 
> in configuration.
>
> Thing is that for every person that would equate this change with an 
> <<improvement>> there are probably at least that many if not 10 times as 
> many who would not. You make the action stiffer when you make it 
> stiffer... goes without saying...  if thats a good thing for the pianist 
> in question fine... if its not...what ...are we going to get all down on 
> the guy and snub our noses at him ?
>
> Why not just call a change a change and leave it at that .... along with 
> making it clear to the customer what the change will do... pros and cons. 
> Because there is always pros and cons.

Hmmm. I'm not a pianist, so I don't know the answer to your questions. 
However, it seems to me that there are indeed some things that can be 
identified as "right or wrong" and some things identified as "personal 
preference". Personal preference is when many pianists like something one 
way and many like it another way - like voicing - obviously a personal 
preference. Keytop material - personal preference. Tuning temperament - 
personal preference. Keys level - seems to me that's right or wrong (R/W). 
Letoff a hair off - or 1 mm - probably personal preference, but letoff close 
to the string or 5 mm from string - probably R/W.

I think there are lots of things that when taken to excess, would be 
considered "wrong" by a vast majority of pianists, but when not so 
excessive, would be in some sort of grey area. Key dip is one - there is a 
range that would make most any pianist happy, although even within that 
range there will be personal preferences - and outside that range it would 
be called "wrong" by the majority of pianists - and of course, there is 
someone who will always like a 13 mm dip.

Glenn Gould's posture at the piano was "wrong" - ask any piano teacher! I 
agree. Would I say that to his face if he were still with us? Don't thing 
so.

How 'bout action balancing? Is six leads in keys right or wrong? Is 70g DW 
right or wrong? There are things that can fairly be identified as right or 
wrong - and yet still have a personal preference component.

I am not a pianist and I don't have much acess to S&S concert grands - so I 
am not intimately familiar with the key flex thing. However, intuitively, 
and from what I read, it seems to me that this is one of those things that 
when taken to extremes it is fair to call a key too flexy or not.

Are you looking for an arguement?

Try this on for size: Rib crowned and supported soundboard can never sound 
as good as a compression crowned soundboard because you need "that tension" 
in the panel to make it sing!

Or how 'bout this: A natural finish on a concert piano is wrong - any stage 
piano must be black!

Oops! Gotta run.....  ;-)

Terry Farrell

> I'd like to know what the criteria for judging these particular keys to 
> have to much flex are ?  Terry ?

Me too! I would really like to hear more on this.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Brekne" <ricb at pianostemmer.no>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 5:30 AM
Subject: Flexy S&S D Keys


> Hi Del and Terry,
>
> Terry, how did you ascertain that there was <<too much>> flex in the keys 
> ?  Del,  what is wrong with calling a spade a spade ?  Honestly folks... 
> any <<improvement>> in an actions performance is wholly a result of the 
> users reaction to the change.  There is no inherent improvment.... only a 
> change in configuration.
>
> Thing is that for every person that would equate this change with an 
> <<improvement>> there are probably at least that many if not 10 times as 
> many who would not. You make the action stiffer when you make it 
> stiffer... goes without saying...  if thats a good thing for the pianist 
> in question fine... if its not...what ...are we going to get all down on 
> the guy and snub our noses at him ?
>
> Why not just call a change a change and leave it at that .... along with 
> making it clear to the customer what the change will do... pros and cons. 
> Because there is always pros and cons.
>
> I'd like to know what the criteria for judging these particular keys to 
> have to much flex are ?  Terry ?
>
> Cheers
> RicB
>
>
>    Have him or her go back to the August and December 1996 Journals and
>    read the
>    two articles I wrote about energy losses in piano actions. In one of
>    those
>    articles I described how to improve (I realize the idea of
>    "improving" anything
>    to do with the piano is subjective so perhaps I should just say
>    "change") these
>    keys.
>     Basically I removed the so-called Accelerated Action "rockers" and
>    replaced them
>    with normal thin felt punchings. I then used the space gained to
>    accommodate
>    maple plates of equal thickness (4 mm comes to mind but you should
>    check) glued
>    to the bottom of the keys. Did wonders to "change" the performance
>    of the action
>    and the piano.
>     Del
>
>