Comparing piano belly to other instruments, was Re: The finite life of wood grain

[Carl Teplitski]

Just a couple of thoughts re. "yours" below.  Very insightful of you and 
it's easy to agree with .
Your note that the violin plucked string has no sustain, as it were,  leads 
me to think that because
the sound board of the violin is so small , is why there is limited sustain. 
When I pluck a piano string,
I find that there is also little sustain.  The string on a violin is very 
short compared to most piano strings.
Guitar strings are much longer and thicker than violin , also.  Like your 
observation of different types of
wood used in piano sound boards creating soft , or dark tone.  Painted a 
very good picture in my mind.
I understand that Stradavari only built 40 instrumments which are regarded 
as unique, or extraordinary.
In any case, he was a great craftsman, and I'm glad that he did, because he 
inspired  many others to try
and achieve similar " perfection."  Imagine doing what he did , without the 
benefit of Computors and this
list .

If grain changes,  who's going to tell Mr. Stradavri that his sound board is 
no longer as good ?? Or was the
sound of his violins better 200 or 300 years ago , and not as good today  ? 
?     [ Possible.]

Another question I have is this ;  why is the title of this post about 
belly, when what I read, is soundboard
in the text   ??        I'm obviously not understanding the difference in 
terminology between the two.


Carl , Winnipeg.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawn Brock" <shawnbrock at fuse.net>
To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Comparing piano belly to other instruments,was Re: The finite 
life of wood grain


> Mike,
>
> while I have no information to offer you I will say its about time someone 
> caught on to the similarities of the guitar and the piano.  I knew a lot 
> about guitars long before I became a piano technician and I probably would 
> have went into guitar and mandolin building if my eye sight would have 
> aloud me to.  The finish is such a important part of the product though, 
> so that let me out.  I have built guitars and had them finished by other 
> luthiers and they turned out to be wonderful instruments.  One of the big 
> names in Nashville still plays one of the guitars I built when I was 17 
> (we grew up together).  After becoming a piano technician I found it to be 
> funny that people had not experimented with different materials to make 
> soundboards. While some of the woods used in guitars would probably never 
> be strong enough to use in pianos it still seems that we have somewhat had 
> a lack of experimentation.  In the guitar world the markings of the origin 
> of the different kinds of spruce can make a lot of difference to the 
> buyer.  We have luthiers who swear that Engelmann is the best while others 
> might prefer to stay with the more commonly used Sitka or Adirondack or 
> European Spruce. The one thing I learned from possessing various high 
> dollar string instruments is the wood used to make the top makes a lot of 
> difference in the tone.  Woods like Redwood provide a vary dark and rich 
> sound partially because of its softness, while Spruce has a little more 
> midrange sound. Interesting discussion!
>
> Regards,
> Shawn Brock, RPT
> 513-316-0563
> www.shawnbrock.com
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Spalding" <mike.spalding1 at verizon.net>
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:33 AM
> Subject: Comparing piano belly to other instruments,was Re: The finite 
> life of wood grain
>
>
>> Jude Reveley/Absolute Piano wrote:
>>> It is still another thing yet, to then draw any conclusion from a 
>>> comparison of a violin to a piano, the piano being strain bearing. Just 
>>> pluck a violin string. It makes a wonderful thunk we call "pizzacato," 
>>> and it is used with extraordinary and delightful effect by all the 
>>> masters; but it is the last type of sound I would want on anything 
>>> resembling a piano.
>> We hear the violin analogy with some regularity, probably because of the 
>> continuing fascination with the  "secret" of Stradivari's tone.  As one 
>> expert puts it, the secret is that there isn't a secret.  Anyway, as you 
>> point out, violins have too many differences from pianos to make a useful 
>> analogy.
>>
>> I'm more interested in the similarities between pianos and guitars. 
>> Soundboard is a flat panel of spruce: check.  Spruce ribs/braces which 
>> impose a crown in the panel: check.  Steel strings, plain and wrapped, 
>> which impose a strain on the crowned panel: check.  Plucking yields a 
>> sustained tone:  check.  Failure modes include soundboard cracks and rib 
>> separation:  check.  I'm preparing a chapter technical comparing the 
>> design/construction/voicing of these two belly systems - is anyone aware 
>> of any existing work out there that I could refer to?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Mike
>>
>