A 6 or even a 10 cent pitch correction, is nothing, really. Not when compared to 60 + cents. It can very easily be done within the 1 hour time slot I mentioned in which case, there is no additional charge. Often, my homes are tuning at the same time of the year, are almost dead on pitch and tune. This enables me to work strictly on fine tuning and minor adjustments with the extra time left over. Here in Michigan, a piano will drift 1/4 tone flat during the winter if tuned in the summer and will drift 1/4 tone sharp during the summer if tuned during the winter. If I tune it bi-annually, I'll let it drift to some degree unless it is required to be spot on for something or another. It makes for a more stable tuning in the long run. Otherwise, I'm raising pitch 1/4 and lowering 1/4 six months later. Concert venues are another matter completely and tricky at that. I almost always tune at A/440. But there have been times where I have returned to tune the piano, to find that it was 439 because of the heat from the lights above or somethig else yet it was dead nuts on with itself. If nothing else is being used for the piano I may leave it at 439 for more stability and less work knowing full well that it will come back up on its own probably by the next time I tune it. Often times, the piano is setting in a different area where the very hot lights are shining where it creates a bit of pitch drift. The next time, it may have been moved to a different location where the lights are not nearly as hot. This alone might allow it to come back up again all by itself. From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Mark Potter Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:33 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Pitch raise criteria John - I concur. Except in performance and recording situations, and for my most discerning clients, I feel that charging for a pitch raise of less than 10-12 cents would not be serving my customer's best interests. What IS common practice for me, though, here in Ohio, is to do a real quick pitch correction for the lowest 6 or so notes of the tenor (some pretty wild swings there!), then tune. Mark Potter --- On Sun, 8/2/09, John Ross <jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca> wrote: From: John Ross <jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Pitch raise criteria To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:03 AM This may be heresy to some, and they are going to be mad at me, but I just have to say it. But I just can't see a pitch raise being necessary for a 2c change. If it is a concert venue, the stage lights can make it vary more than that. When I started, statements like that kind of scared me, I couldn't possibly get that kind of accuracy. Then I decided, I wasn't going to worry about it. Let us be real, except for concert technician situations, a one of concert, it isn't necessary. If a piano is a lot out of pitch, then that customer doesn't really need, the superfine tuning, so you are wasting their money, and your time. They obviously don't need it. How many times have you been called out, to be told, it has been a few years since it was tuned, and it is still almost spot on? I have this niggling feeling, that the people that make these 1 and 2 cent statements, are trying to show people how good they are. Different customers need different things, so tune and charge for the service REQUIRED by the customer, not by your needs to pay your bills. Mostly for pitch raises, I will tell them to call me back in a month or two, as we are on a catch up situation, due to the too long a time between tunings. I also tell them that because of the humidity changes, it never really stays in tune anyway. So once again, why the need for a pitch raise every time a piano is tuned? MOST people don't need it. Oh to be fair, that depends on your clientele. Most people won't be able to hear this 1 and 2 cent discrepancy. So anyone new in the business, don't be put off by some of the claims made. If your customers keep calling you back, then you are doing the job correctly for them. Oh yes, this is my 20th year for a University contract, that is given out yearly. I retired from it for a year on my 70 the birthday, but missed doing it, and they encouraged me to apply again, as they had always been satisfied with my work. So I did, and I have it back. The pianos, under a lot of you, would have needed a pitch raise every time I tuned them, but the most I ever did was double tune to some areas. 40 pianos done twice a year, and 3 of them concert grands, done 10 times or more in the school year. Some of the other tunings at the university were for concerts, and recordings. With the seasons here, it makes no sense to do a pitch raise for anything under say 20 cents, and that is a guess. If it is out any amount I say you left it too long call me in a month or two, or if you notice it sooner. I also tell them, not to tune it through the summer, but to wait till the heat is on in the Fall. Different strokes for different folks, customers and tuners. Oh yes, funny thing, I will probably get no comments on this. I don't know if it is because people see my name and erase it, or don't want to be seen as agreeing with me. LOL John Ross Windsor, Nova Scotia ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Farrell To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 6:24 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Pitch raise criteria Don't sweat it too much Rob. Some of us seem to never really get into the "high speed" category. Now maybe there's something wrong with me (well, we KNOW that!) but I've been tuning pianos for more than ten years now and on a regular basis it take me two hours to do a full pitch raise and tuning on a piano that has been neglected from some years. If the piano is up to pitch, it usually takes me 75 minutes to tune it - sometimes, if the piano is very cooperative, I can do it in an hour. These guys that pitch raise, tune and repair a piano in one hour (and do good work), have skills and techniques beyond what I have. I wish I could work that fast. I've gone to the speed classes and the techniques I've tried just haven't worked for me. Terry Farrell On Aug 1, 2009, at 10:24 PM, John Formsma wrote: On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Rob McCall <rob at mccallpiano.com> wrote: Jer, I still don't see how you can do all that in an hour! :-) I'm still taking about 2 hours, sometimes 10-15 minutes longer on the more difficult pianos. 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