Good, finally someone else who has seen this. Joe, that is exactly where they broke, where you described it. I concluded the same thing as well. That it is a major stress point and perhaps more so, there was a bit of faulty manufacturing tolerances as well. From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Joe DeFazio Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:12 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Replacing plastic elbows From: "Gerald Groot" <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> Date: December 8, 2009 3:01:03 PM EST [snip] Mine broke right at the point where it snaps on again. Where the slot engages the pin. One side or the other of the snap on just up and cracked in half. [snip] I will weigh in on this one, since Ernie Vagias lived and manufactured elbows right down the river from me (last I heard, his son was still manufacturing the elbows), and one of my colleagues apprenticed with him. He was quite an interesting guy, from what I hear, though I never met him.... I have seen more than a dozen broken Vagias elbows in the field, as well as a few that were not broken but popped off (possibly due to incorrect installation or faulty manufacturing tolerances in the inlet for the center pin). The broken ones that I have seen have all been older ones (opaque), and they have all broken off below the bushing. Think about it: that's the part that is under the most stress when the key is played. All of the older broken ones that I have seen had a slightly different design than the modern one pictured below; they lacked the reinforcing fin or gusset that the new ones have at this point of greatest stress. I have indicated this fin or gusset with a green line in the picture below. I have never seen one that cracked above the bushing; that part is not stressed much at all, and I doubt that they ever would crack there. My rather obvious deduction is that Mr. Vagias was alerted to the problem of his replacement elbows breaking below the bushing, and added the fin or gusset below to reinforce this area, and from what I have seen, this was a very helpful change. If anyone can supply a picture of a newer reinforced elbow that has broken either below the bushing, or at any other point, I will be quite surprised. One of the best things about this list is that we all gain new information which allows us to change our habits and thinking where appropriate (like many of you, I am apt to change my mind mind and behavior in light of new evidence, and I think that our customers are better off for it). I have a feeling that some who are set against Vagias plastic elbows came to a logical and correct conclusion concerning the old Vagias elbows, and have not updated their thinking or practices in light of the newer reinforced elbow design. Then again, maybe someone will post pictures of new, reinforced elbows that have broken, in which case I will consider changing my mind. I will, of course, not pay any attention to pictures of newer broken Vagias elbows that show signs of hacksawing, bullet holes, Sherman tank treadmarks, explosive residue, bengal tiger toothmarks, and the like :-) Joe DeFazio Pittsburgh _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 091208-1, 12/08/2009 Tested on: 12/8/2009 9:55:01 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20091208/23cccb6e/attachment-0001.htm> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 27376 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20091208/23cccb6e/attachment-0001.jpeg>
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