David-
That may be so, even likely, and I have done what you say to lower the hammer shank cushions.
A few measurements and calculations that take 5 minutes will confirm it, before undertaking surgery on the cushions.
Irregularities in action geometry of fine American pianos are not unheard of. Checking bore distance and strike line are simple, basic checks which everyone can and, I believe, should learn to make. If you take these measurements, Brooks, Ltd. will bore and hang the hammers to match the specs you send them, at no extra charge.
Ed Sutton
----- Original Message -----
From: David Love
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
If he used factory bore specs and can only get 1.5" of blow distance likely the wippen cushion is the culprit. Otherwise, the suggestion is that the bore dimension would be off by ¼" having to reduce the bore distance to about 1.5" in the treble/tenor. Seems unlikely. >From the photos you can see that the rest cushions are very high. Look seriously into doing what Jon and I suggested and simply peel off the red felt and either peel the underfelt down to a reasonable height or replace it. Wippen elevations can be inconsistent on Steinways and sometimes even the normal thickness cushions on, say, a Renner wippen will not leave enough clearance between the shank and the cushion. Ideally, there should be 1 to 1 ½ shank thicknesses between the shank and the cushion. If you set the shank just fractionally off the rest cushion then as the blow distance increases with settling and compression you will have the shank resting on the cushion which isn't a good thing.
David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ed Sutton
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:38 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
But the information you give indicates that the hammer bore distance is _not_ fine. Is the keyframe properly bedded? If so, you need to measure string height(A) and cener pin height of the hammer flange(B). Bore distance = A - B.
"Factory spec." is generic, not optimal. In the factory hammers are hung generically without regard for other deviations from factory spec. in building the piano.
Ed S.
Original Message -----
From: pianolover 88
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
Thanks for all the helpful replies. The hammer bore is fine; no difference in strike distance using OLD hammer and new wipp. Btw, I had W. Brooks hang the hammers to the shanks using Steinway L specs. I just screwed them on and aligned and travelled as necessary. Yes, new wippen cushions seem to be the culprit as they are indeed 3-4mm higher than the originals.
I think I will try the compression method for 24 hours and see if they stay compressed enough to give me 1 3/4" plus maybe at least a hair of space between the shank and cushion. Other than that everything seems peachy!
I was at the client's house yesterday prepping for restringing, and there were maby 8-10 pins that came out "wobbly", even though pins were perfectly straight! Pinblock had previously checked out in excellent condition with no loose pins or any signs of problems; all pins were consitently and adequately tight. Any idea why those few pins came out so wobbly?
Cheers,
Terry Peterson
Accurate Piano Service
UniGeezer.com
"Over 50, and not "2" Tired!"
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To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:51:36 -0400
From: wimblees at aol.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
Terry
Before doing anything drastic, I would measure the height of the wippen cushions on your Tokiwas wips and compare it with the height of a S&S wip cushion. I agree with David that the ones you have are too tall, and cutting off a 1/4" or even 3/8" of felt is not against the "rules", and would be much easier than reboring the hammers.
Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT
Piano Tuner/Technician
Mililani, Oahu, HI
808-349-2943
Author of:
The Business of Piano Tuning
available from Potter Press
www.pianotuning.com
-----Original Message-----
From: pianolover 88 <pianolover88 at hotmail.com>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 24, 2009 11:07 am
Subject: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
Hello all,
I'm rebuilding a Steinway L, circa 1962, and I just finished replacing all the wipps, hammers, shanks, flanges. All these parts are Tokiwa, and I must say I'm pretty happy with the quality and fit. For the hammers I went with abel encore naturals, since I've used these before on S&S and was very pleased, I did the same here.
My question has to do with regulating strike distance to 1 3/4". As we know, many pianos have an adjustable rebound rail. We also know that Steinway d oes NOT. Each rebound cushion is part of the wippen, and does not have a separate up/down adjustment. The reason I bring this up, is that now with all new action parts in place, I find that I must lower the hammers all the way down, firmly resting on the cushions, but that still only yields about 1.5" strike distance. I did bench regulate about a half an octave just to see how it responded at the shortened SD, and it seemed perfectly fine, but I'd like to get it to proper specs.
I realize that new parts need breaking in, and the new knuckles will also compress. I tried compressing a few of the cushions by pressing down on them for about 10 seconds, and that put me almost to 1 3/4", but they will likely puff up again. So I placed a box of jiffy weights along the tops (see pic) of a few of them, and if I leave for a day or so, do you think this will compress them enough to allow for proper strike distance, and possible even enough to actually get the shanks at least a bit off the cushions? Or is this not a good idea?
Thanks in advance for any help on this issue.
Cheers!
Terry Peterson
Accurate Piano Service
UniGeezer.com
"Over 50, and not "2" Tired!"
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