Lol, you're right, the spurlock jig I do have is for hanging hammers. Just glad i found the problem as it saved me a ton of *unnecessary* work!
Terry Peterson
Accurate Piano Service
UniGeezer.com
"Over 50, and not "2" Tired!"
From: ed440 at mindspring.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:14:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question (Holy mother of miracles!)
Terry-
That's not a Spurlock jig, it's the one that comes from
Schaff and (in the old days) APSCO. They tend to warp, as you
see.
Put two case bumpers on the front corners and a leveling
screw in the center back. Drill and insert a bunch of leads in the back edge of
the base.
Or get a Spurlock let-off jig, which won't have those
problems.
This is a good example of what can happen when you solve
the wrong problem in a piano action!
Ed S.
----- Original Message -----
From:
pianolover 88
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:44
PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L
rebuild question (Holy mother of miracles!)
Haha, I was just about to go through the lengthy process of
cutting down ALL the wipp rebound cushions, when I discovered the REAL reason
for my little dilemma. I use the spurlock letoff jig (see pic) and I initially
adjusted it for the exact string height measurements (taken--with great
care--from the action cavity before removing the old strings) then placed the
jig on my work table, and lined up the bass hammer line to it.
That's
when I found that I could onlky get 1.5" blow even woith the shanks fully
resting on the cushions. So, like many of you I initially suspected it was
something to do with the new wipps, hammer bore maybe too long, etc. So I
REMEASURED the jig for correct height again on my work bench and hello!
To my utter surprise the bottom (supposedly flat) piece of the jig was
slightly warped, causing the whole jig to lean toward the action, effectively
LOWERING what I thought was the correct height...by almost 1/4"!!!! I had not
noticed this before! You can see in the pic the big gap in the back as it
tilts forward.
Somehow it was flat and NOT leaning when I first
adjusted it on a different surface, but failed to recheck it on the work
table! So to keep the jig flat and stable, I used my jiffy weight case to
secure it and keep it flat. So mystery solved and thanks all for your great
insights and help!
Terry Peterson
Accurate Piano
Service
UniGeezer.com
"Over 50, and not "2"
Tired!"
From: ed440 at mindspring.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009
10:19:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
David-
That may be so, even likely, and I have done
what you say to lower the hammer shank cushions.
A few measurements and calculations that take 5
minutes will confirm it, before undertaking surgery on the
cushions.
Irregularities in action geometry of fine
American pianos are not unheard of. Checking bore distance and strike
line are simple, basic checks which everyone can and, I believe, should learn
to make. If you take these measurements, Brooks, Ltd. will bore and hang the
hammers to match the specs you send them, at no extra charge.
Ed Sutton
-----
Original Message -----
From:
David Love
To:
pianotech at ptg.org
Sent:
Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:51 AM
Subject:
Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
If
he used factory bore specs and can only get 1.5” of blow distance likely the
wippen cushion is the culprit. Otherwise, the suggestion is that the
bore dimension would be off by ¼” having to reduce the bore distance to
about 1.5” in the treble/tenor. Seems unlikely. >From the
photos you can see that the rest cushions are very high. Look
seriously into doing what Jon and I suggested and simply peel off the red
felt and either peel the underfelt down to a reasonable height or replace
it. Wippen elevations can be inconsistent on Steinways and sometimes
even the normal thickness cushions on, say, a Renner wippen will not leave
enough clearance between the shank and the cushion. Ideally, there
should be 1 to 1 ½ shank thicknesses between the shank and the
cushion. If you set the shank just fractionally off the rest cushion
then as the blow distance increases with settling and compression you will
have the shank resting on the cushion which isn’t a good thing.
David
Love
www.davidlovepianos.com
From:
pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
Ed Sutton
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:38 AM
To:
pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild
question
But the
information you give indicates that the hammer bore distance is _not_ fine.
Is the keyframe properly bedded? If so, you need to measure string height(A)
and cener pin height of the hammer flange(B). Bore distance = A - B.
"Factory spec."
is generic, not optimal. In the factory hammers are hung generically without
regard for other deviations from factory spec. in building the
piano.
Ed S.
Original
Message -----
From: pianolover 88
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, July
25, 2009 12:25 AM
Subject: Re:
[pianotech] Steinway L rebuild question
Thanks for
all the helpful replies. The hammer bore is fine; no difference in strike
distance using OLD hammer and new wipp. Btw, I had W. Brooks hang the
hammers to the shanks using Steinway L specs. I just screwed them on and
aligned and travelled as necessary. Yes, new wippen cushions seem to be
the culprit as they are indeed 3-4mm higher than the originals.
I
think I will try the compression method for 24 hours and see if they stay
compressed enough to give me 1 3/4" plus maybe at least a hair of space
between the shank and cushion. Other than that everything seems peachy!
I was at the client's house yesterday prepping for restringing,
and there were maby 8-10 pins that came out "wobbly", even though pins
were perfectly straight! Pinblock had previously checked out in excellent
condition with no loose pins or any signs of problems; all pins were
consitently and adequately tight. Any idea why those few pins came out so
wobbly?
Cheers,
Terry Peterson
Accurate Piano
Service
UniGeezer.com
"Over 50, and not
"2" Tired!"
To:
pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:51:36 -0400
From:
wimblees at aol.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild
question
Terry
Before doing anything drastic, I would
measure the height of the wippen cushions on your Tokiwas wips and compare
it with the height of a S&S wip cushion. I agree with David that the
ones you have are too tall, and cutting off a 1/4" or even 3/8" of felt is
not against the "rules", and would be much easier than reboring the
hammers.
Willem (Wim)
Blees, RPT
Piano Tuner/Technician
Mililani, Oahu,
HI
808-349-2943
Author of:
The Business of Piano
Tuning
available from Potter
Press
www.pianotuning.com
-----Original
Message-----
From: pianolover 88
<pianolover88 at hotmail.com>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Fri,
Jul 24, 2009 11:07 am
Subject: [pianotech] Steinway L rebuild
question
Hello
all,
I'm rebuilding a Steinway L, circa 1962, and I just finished
replacing all the wipps, hammers, shanks, flanges. All these parts are
Tokiwa, and I must say I'm pretty happy with the quality and fit. For the
hammers I went with abel encore naturals, since I've used these before on
S&S and was very pleased, I did the same here.
My question has
to do with regulating strike distance to 1 3/4". As we know, many pianos
have an adjustable rebound rail. We also know that Steinway d oes NOT.
Each rebound cushion is part of the wippen, and does not have a
separate up/down adjustment. The reason I bring this up, is that now with
all new action parts in place, I find that I must lower the hammers all
the way down, firmly resting on the cushions, but that still only
yields about 1.5" strike distance. I did bench regulate about a half an
octave just to see how it responded at the shortened SD, and it seemed
perfectly fine, but I'd like to get it to proper specs.
I realize
that new parts need breaking in, and the new knuckles will also compress.
I tried compressing a few of the cushions by pressing down on them for
about 10 seconds, and that put me almost to 1 3/4", but they will likely
puff up again. So I placed a box of jiffy weights along the tops (see pic)
of a few of them, and if I leave for a day or so, do you think this will
compress them enough to allow for proper strike distance, and possible
even enough to actually get the shanks at least a bit off the cushions? Or
is this not a good idea?
Thanks in advance for any help on this
issue.
Cheers!
Terry Peterson
Accurate Piano
Service
UniGeezer.com
"Over 50, and not
"2" Tired!"
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