A "speed" technique is to cut the hammers off without touching the shanks. This is done by using a pair of side cutters and cutting (a splitting of sort of the hammre wood)from the tail up toward the shank. After a few times this is quit a rapid hammre removal method. There is no need to chip off the glew collar until after the entire set of hammers is removed. If you want to use the exsisting hammers for a guide for hanging the new set then just cut off every other hammer, hang the new ones then snip off the remaining and complete the remainders. This can technique also be used for the verts. Would also suggest after removing the hammers to clean up the shanks and remove any glue. Schaff tools 238 They call them Diagonal Music Wire Nippers aka Side cutters Also 3207 Hamner Shank Cutters pg 67 Shank reducer # 75 can be used (with caution) for cleaning off the glue. Good luck Gerry C, RPT --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: mike.spalding1 at verizon.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:30:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement Gary, A couple of things that have worked for me: 1) remove the glue collar. This is necessary to let your press seat squarely against the hammer. If it's hide glue, it should be brittle enough to chip off when pressed with a not-too-sharp knife. 2) Pre-heat the joint with a heat gun. 3) reduce the size of, or remove completely, the point on the end of your shank press. Schaff's current offering has a big blunt point that does excessively enlarge the end of the shank. Are you trying to save the old hammers? If not, consider a different removal method that sacrifices the hammers to reduce the damage to the shank. Such as splitting the hammers with diagonal cutting pliers. You'll still need to re-size or re-knurl the end of the shank to get consistent fit to your new hammers. hope this helps Mike Escapement wrote: > > Hello all, first, thanks again to all those who contribute here on a > regular basis—I find this list an invaluable resource. > > When replacing grand hammers (retaining existing shanks) should I prep > the hammer/ shank joint in any way prior to using my grand hammer > press? My bible (Reblitz) doesn’t mention any need. > > I ask because when I use the press, it leaves a dimple in the top of > the shank and seems to slightly swell it as well. > > I’m able to reshape the top by knurling with pliers, but I wonder if I > could be doing it better. > > Thanks in advance for any advice, > > Gary Hodge, PTG, assoc. > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: jim_busby at byu.edu To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:58:40 -0600 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Leveling keys Someone once told me that Steinway has a hidden motto "If you can't fix it, feature it." (Now, I LOVE Steinway. Just find it funny and somewhat accurate.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Groot Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:41 PM To: tcole at cruzio.com; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Leveling keys OK. Some interesting view points. Joe is cracking me up with his straight forwardness. Even if he isn't intending too... So far, via this thread and private emails, it's about 60/40. 60 % against, 40 % for it. Why and why not? If Steinway recommends it for their pianos why not others too? -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Cole Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:12 PM To: joegarrett at earthlink.net; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Leveling keys Joe, I'm totally in agreement with you. If the middle of the keyboard sags, you need to re-level the keys. Presumably if the keyboard is crowned, the dip is "crowned" also, so when the keyboard sags in the middle you still need to build the middle back up to restore proper keydip. I wonder if Steinway still does this. Tom Cole Joseph Garrett wrote: > Yes! I do Steinways FLAT, as in LEVEL! It's a stupid idea with no > Merit whatsoever!!! If you look at the Fallboard edge, it's FLAT! The > whole idea of the raised center was to off-set the area that got the > most playing. It has nothing to do with regulating or action geometry > and any other damned thing! Just Stupid! > Joe > > Joe Garrett, R.P.T. (Oregon) > Captain, Tool Police > Squares R I > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft > <mailto:AlliedPianoCraft at hotmail.com> > *To: *joegarrett at earthlink.net > <mailto:joegarrett at earthlink.net>;pianotech at ptg.org > <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> > *Sent:* 6/22/09 3:23:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] Leveling keys > > I would hope you don't do a Steinway "flat", because you would not > be regulating it according to specs. > > Steinway = curve. > Most others = flat. > > That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! > > Al > > > > > *From:* Joseph Garrett <mailto:joegarrett at earthlink.net> > *Sent:* Sunday, June 21, 2009 5:19 PM > *To:* pianotech <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> > *Subject:* [pianotech] Leveling keys > > All, > To me, the word level means FLAT And paralell to the floor! > Anything else is Curving, which I don't do, because I think > it's not smart thinkin'.<G> I mean, WHY? Just doesn't make > sense to me. I have a Pratt-Read Stick, that has one side > curved 1mm and the other is straight. It is a piece of wood, > (suspect bass wood), with Ivorine on both sides. That sucker > does not deviate one iota....ever! Wish they were still > available. I use the curved side when I am leveling keys on my > "Master Bench", which has a 1mm crown in it's 2" thick, 7' x > 3' laminated maple top. That way, when the action is put back > in the piano, the keys are LEVEL, as in flat, as in parallel > to the floor/key bed.<G> If I am using the thing in the field, > I always use the Straight side. I've never had a pianist ask > for such an abomination, so why do it?' > That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.<G> > Regards, > Joe > > > Joe Garrett, R.P.T. (Oregon) > Captain, Tool Police > Squares R I > > > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090622-0, 06/22/2009 Tested on: 6/22/2009 9:41:26 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: A440A at aol.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:06:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Leveling keys (the Steinway answer) Keith writes: << If one looks closely at the front of the keyframe and keybed with keyblocks unfastened, this crown and reverse crown are evident. >> I can usually see a crown in the keybed, but the frames, not so consistantly. Even so, if the bed is crowned, and the frame is straight, the slight holding pressure of the cheek blocks will insure that there is a bit of pressure formed in the middle to prevent knocks. It is important to not put too much pressure on the guide pins, since that will warp the keyframe up and create knocks! Regards, Ed Foote RPT http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html <BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=62&bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62)</HTML> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: amadeuspiano at comcast.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:08:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement Mike, thanks for the response. I was wondering whether I should heat the glue or try splitting the head with nippers--Reblitz does recommend this on vertical hammers where they cannot be pressed off. But I esp. like the idea of grinding down the point on the Schaff hammer press; I hadn't thought of that and it makes sense. Just what I was looking for--I appreciate it. I don't have a proper knurler, so for the time being, I am knurling with a pair of small pliers, careful, tedious work, but it seems to work ok. Gary -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Mike Spalding Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:30 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement Gary, A couple of things that have worked for me: 1) remove the glue collar. This is necessary to let your press seat squarely against the hammer. If it's hide glue, it should be brittle enough to chip off when pressed with a not-too-sharp knife. 2) Pre-heat the joint with a heat gun. 3) reduce the size of, or remove completely, the point on the end of your shank press. Schaff's current offering has a big blunt point that does excessively enlarge the end of the shank. Are you trying to save the old hammers? If not, consider a different removal method that sacrifices the hammers to reduce the damage to the shank. Such as splitting the hammers with diagonal cutting pliers. You'll still need to re-size or re-knurl the end of the shank to get consistent fit to your new hammers. hope this helps Mike Escapement wrote: > > Hello all, first, thanks again to all those who contribute here on a > regular basis-I find this list an invaluable resource. > > When replacing grand hammers (retaining existing shanks) should I prep > the hammer/ shank joint in any way prior to using my grand hammer > press? My bible (Reblitz) doesn't mention any need. > > I ask because when I use the press, it leaves a dimple in the top of > the shank and seems to slightly swell it as well. > > I'm able to reshape the top by knurling with pliers, but I wonder if I > could be doing it better. > > Thanks in advance for any advice, > > Gary Hodge, PTG, assoc. > --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: ilvey at sbcglobal.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:40:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement You should check out Jurgen's hammer removing pliers... info at pianofortesupply.com David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Amadeus Piano" <amadeuspiano at comcast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 6/23/2009 10:08:14 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement >Mike, thanks for the response. I was wondering whether I should heat the >glue or try splitting the head with nippers--Reblitz does recommend this on >vertical hammers where they cannot be pressed off. But I esp. like the idea >of grinding down the point on the Schaff hammer press; I hadn't thought of >that and it makes sense. >Just what I was looking for--I appreciate it. >I don't have a proper knurler, so for the time being, I am knurling with a >pair of small pliers, careful, tedious work, but it seems to work ok. >Gary >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf >Of Mike Spalding >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:30 AM >To: pianotech at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement >Gary, >A couple of things that have worked for me: 1) remove the glue collar. >This is necessary to let your press seat squarely against the hammer. If >it's hide glue, it should be brittle enough to chip off when pressed >with a not-too-sharp knife. 2) Pre-heat the joint with a heat gun. 3) >reduce the size of, or remove completely, the point on the end of your >shank press. Schaff's current offering has a big blunt point that does >excessively enlarge the end of the shank. >Are you trying to save the old hammers? If not, consider a different >removal method that sacrifices the hammers to reduce the damage to the >shank. Such as splitting the hammers with diagonal cutting pliers. >You'll still need to re-size or re-knurl the end of the shank to get >consistent fit to your new hammers. >hope this helps >Mike >Escapement wrote: >> >> Hello all, first, thanks again to all those who contribute here on a >> regular basis-I find this list an invaluable resource. >> >> When replacing grand hammers (retaining existing shanks) should I prep >> the hammer/ shank joint in any way prior to using my grand hammer >> press? My bible (Reblitz) doesn't mention any need. >> >> I ask because when I use the press, it leaves a dimple in the top of >> the shank and seems to slightly swell it as well. >> >> I'm able to reshape the top by knurling with pliers, but I wonder if I >> could be doing it better. >> >> Thanks in advance for any advice, >> >> Gary Hodge, PTG, assoc. >> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: ilvey at sbcglobal.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:44:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement Website is www.pianofortesupply.com David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Amadeus Piano" <amadeuspiano at comcast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 6/23/2009 10:08:14 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement >Mike, thanks for the response. I was wondering whether I should heat the >glue or try splitting the head with nippers--Reblitz does recommend this on >vertical hammers where they cannot be pressed off. But I esp. like the idea >of grinding down the point on the Schaff hammer press; I hadn't thought of >that and it makes sense. >Just what I was looking for--I appreciate it. >I don't have a proper knurler, so for the time being, I am knurling with a >pair of small pliers, careful, tedious work, but it seems to work ok. >Gary >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf >Of Mike Spalding >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:30 AM >To: pianotech at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [pianotech] Grand Hammer Removal / Replacement >Gary, >A couple of things that have worked for me: 1) remove the glue collar. >This is necessary to let your press seat squarely against the hammer. If >it's hide glue, it should be brittle enough to chip off when pressed >with a not-too-sharp knife. 2) Pre-heat the joint with a heat gun. 3) >reduce the size of, or remove completely, the point on the end of your >shank press. Schaff's current offering has a big blunt point that does >excessively enlarge the end of the shank. >Are you trying to save the old hammers? If not, consider a different >removal method that sacrifices the hammers to reduce the damage to the >shank. Such as splitting the hammers with diagonal cutting pliers. >You'll still need to re-size or re-knurl the end of the shank to get >consistent fit to your new hammers. >hope this helps >Mike >Escapement wrote: >> >> Hello all, first, thanks again to all those who contribute here on a >> regular basis-I find this list an invaluable resource. >> >> When replacing grand hammers (retaining existing shanks) should I prep >> the hammer/ shank joint in any way prior to using my grand hammer >> press? My bible (Reblitz) doesn't mention any need. >> >> I ask because when I use the press, it leaves a dimple in the top of >> the shank and seems to slightly swell it as well. >> >> I'm able to reshape the top by knurling with pliers, but I wonder if I >> could be doing it better. >> >> Thanks in advance for any advice, >> >> Gary Hodge, PTG, assoc. >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20090623/0eb49ee3/attachment-0001.htm>
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