Thanks to David L, PR Jones, and Ron N, David, I am familiar with PRJ's fine series on this subject, and also with Pianotek's insert kits, but I appreciate the mention of both. The agraffe spacing is decently wide to allow for a clean insert job, although there are usually tap-handle clearance issues at the first and last agraffe in any section, even (sometimes) with the use of tap extenders. However, all agraffe holes are also easily accessible and flush from the underside of the plate (sometimes comes in handy). My sense is that a full insert job would take longer than a recon job on the originals. Paul, Paul writes: "Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your intent, but are you wanting to replace these agraffes? If so, why? You'll have to do the same to the new ones that you can do to the old ones, if, as you say, they are essentially undamaged (pitting aside--that can be polished out)." Nick writes: I don't always replace agraffes, but I usually do. I am familiar with your point of view RE the questionable quality of new agraffe string holes and ancillary issues and have followed your advice on a few choice jobs. But in this case I have a couple of concerns: 1) cosmetics -- the originals look as though they were fashioned from solid gold, which leads to; 2) I am rebuilding this BB for a dealer and when it's sold it could end up anywhere. Should an agraffe pop (or otherwise be rightly or wrongly judged defective) in the Middle-of-Nowhere, USA the attending technician now faces the insert job, in the customer's home, and on a shiny, gilded plate, close to beautiful red cloth, etc. Even if the insert job turns out well (a big IF) the replacement brass will look like a badly played card trick. Besides, the likelihood is large that the piano owner will call the dealer, who then is going to call me (and the band played on). What's that I once heard about 90% of problem solving being found in an accurate diagnosis of the problem? Decision-making often follows a similar route. Ron N, Ron writes: "[The threads are] 34tpi. Been there.... I'd probably tap them out and sleeve them back down to a standard size with brass. Very much a pain, but it's a good fix. Nick writes: Thanks for the 34TPI info; didn't know what they were for sure. I guess 80 years ago, in Boston, in the M&H factory on a sultry August late afternoon, when it was time to decide on TPI for the agraffes someone hollered out, "Hey, quick, somebody think of a number between 32 and 36!" <G>. Anyway, I may go this route based on my reply to PR Jones above. Regards, Nick Gravagne, RPT Piano Technicians Guild Member Society Manufacturing Engineers Voice Mail 928-476-4143 -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:39 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Agraffes -- Mason & Hamlin BB It's an odd size and you won't find it anywhere. Reconditioning the old ones is quite doable and Paul Revenko-Jones article on such a procedure that appeared in the PTJ awhile back is very useful and detailed. Pianotek also sells a universal agraffe replacement kit that involves fitting an insert into the plate that the 1/4" agraffe will screw into. The correctly sized drill and tap are also part of the kit. You might ask them about that. It is fairly easy to do and though it does take a bit of time I'm not sure it's more involved than reconditioning the old ones. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Nick Gravagne Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:08 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: [pianotech] Agraffes -- Mason & Hamlin BB Hello All, Agraffes recently removed from a Boston M&H BB (#35000 circa 1927) are dimensioned at 0.280" stud (includes threads), and near as I can tell the TPI is metric at 0.75 but I don't take this to be accurate. Still, I couldn't get the gage's 32 or 36 TPI to line up right with the threads. The standard 1/4" stud just falls in the hole. A prior tech removed the originals and "cleaned" them up by sand blasting, or so it seems by the slightly pitted appearance; otherwise nothing is bent or weird looking. The string holes have not been touched or redressed. Pianotek does not offer this size (that I can see from the catalog), neither does Schaff. The idea of plugging and re-tapping for standard agraffes is, of course, possible but relatively time consuming, and there is no room for error. Anyone replaced these recently, and if so with what? Any reconditioning anecdotes worth sharing? Thanks Nick Gravagne, RPT Piano Technicians Guild Member Society Manufacturing Engineers Voice Mail 928-476-4143
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