[pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was:billing dilemmawith pitch raises

William Truitt surfdog at metrocast.net
Tue Nov 2 03:52:34 MDT 2010


You make me ashamed of myself, Terry.  You are, of course, correct.  Health
insurance is for 18 to 24 year old young women with no prior medically
disqualifying history (we'll overlook the medical crime of being born just
this once) (not for men in that age group, they get drunk and fall off
buildings) and the very wealthy.

 

My prediction is that when the wealthy can't afford health insurance either,
they will become Nazi-Facist-Commie-Socialists too.  

 

Will

 

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Terry Farrell
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 10:58 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was:billing dilemmawith pitch
raises

 

Nice comments Will, but one glaring error: 

On Nov 1, 2010, at 10:16 PM, William Truitt wrote: "...this is how private
health insurance works also.  Everybody pays into a pool so that the
individuals who need to take from the system can get the care they need when
they need it, at least in theory."

 

I would argue against this Will. In universal health insurance, everybody
pays into the pool via taxes. In private health insurance only those who are
healthy pay into the pool, unless of course, the odd situation arises that
the insurance company can't find a way to disqualify someone who has a
medical issue........

 

Terry Farrell

 

 

Dean:

 

I don't smoke, drink 2 liters of coke a day, or eat fast food.  I eat a lot
of raw fruits and vegetables.  I don't buy organic beef or the meat of trash
eating animals because I don't eat meat. I take my Vita-Meata-Vegamins.   I
do expect others to pay for my health care because, in universal health
care, I am paying for theirs too.  And, by the way, this is how private
health insurance works also.  Everybody pays into a pool so that the
individuals who need to take from the system can get the care they need when
they need it, at least in theory. 

 

I sympathize with your remarks about junk foods and their impact on our
health and associated health care costs.  You are not wrong about that.
Health care professionals are predicting that 1/3 of our citizens will
develop diabetes because of poor lifestyle choices.   Perhaps we should get
the money changers out of the cafeteria, and remove the coke machines and
candy dispensers from the public schools. 

 

Governments simply could not function without  the power to compel their
citizens to do certain things.  Taxation has to be compulsory, otherwise the
system could not function.  Roads would not get built or fixed, schools
could not educate our children.  The question lies in where we draw the line
as to what things governments should do and compel their citizens to pay
for.  For those who have forgotten, we still live in a democracy.  So the
majority gets to choose where the lines get drawn, and can change the lines
if they don't like it.  Which means, Dean, that you can change where the
lines are drawn if you can find enough like minded individuals.  That's your
right as a citizen, same as mine.  And the majority wins.  Is that tyranny? 

 

How did you decide that my motive is to steal bread from the mouths of your
children to pay for my health care?  I didn't even know that you have
children.  Honest.

 

It is a sad reflection on these times we live in where,  instead of debating
the pros and cons of all sides of an issue in a dispassionate manner so that
we can collectively and peacefully arrive at solutions that benefit as many
of our citizens as possible, there are people who get out the flame throwers
and denigrate and demonize those whom they disagree with.  I. E., if my
opponent is pond scum, I don't have to give credence to anything he or she
says.  That may work in societies where relationships are based solely on
power struggles, but is terribly dysfunctional in a democracy. 

 

 

Will Truitt

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org>
mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Dean May
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 9:13 PM
To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was:billing dilemmawith pitch
raises

 

"What, pray tell, is the more sinister motive that the rest of us (in our
drooling tranquilized stupor) seem to be missing?"

 

And why should I pay for the health care of someone who smokes, eats fast
food and drinks two liters of Coke a day? Health is directly related to a
person's lifestyle choices. I try to eat raw foods, I buy grass fed organic
beef and raw organic milk. I don't eat the meat of trash eating animals. I
take vitamins. I don't expect someone else to pay for my health care or my
family's.

 

The sinister motive is you want the sheriff to steal bread from the mouths
of my children to pay for your health care and for the idiots who abuse
their bodies with what they do and eat. The very real threat of lethal force
backs up every piece of legislation. So in essence, "free" health care
advocates are willing to kill me to get their free lunch.

 

Medical care costs have skyrocketed during my lifetime. It has paralleled
the increase of "free" care provided by insurance and Medicare. The more
free you make it, the more expensive it becomes. Lower costs come from
responsible consumers making informed choices. For example, my wife needed a
gall bladder sonogram. I priced shopped, something someone with insurance
would never do. One hospital (private) was going to charge around $400. The
other hospitial- public and bigger- was going to charge around $750. Neither
charge included the radiologists fee to read the results. I found an
independent imaging lab that charged $225 and that included having their on
site doctor read the results. How many people with insurance or Medicare
would have gone to this kind of effort??? The answer is self evident.

 

The reason health care is so expensive is because it is so free for so many
people. There is zero incentive (there is actually negative incentive) to
bargin for lower prices. And the more free you make it the more expensive it
will become.

 

 

 

Dean

Dean W May                (812) 235-5272

PianoRebuilders.com    (888) DEAN-MAY

Terre Haute IN 47802

 

 


  _____  


From:  <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [
<mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
Behalf Of William Truitt
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 7:42 PM
To:  <mailto:pmc033 at earthlink.net> pmc033 at earthlink.net;
<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was:billing dilemmawith pitch
raises

The inconvenient truth is that health care costs are already bankrupting the
economy.  The lack of paying customers is slowly bankrupting many hospitals,
as the number of indigent patients increase.  One of the reasons our auto
industry and so many other industries are uncompetitive are health care
costs.  You may argue that these costs should be shifted to the employee,
which, more and more they are.  And so many cannot afford to carry the full
burden of health care, so they end up at the hospitals, placing a great
burden on the bottom line for the hospital and putting it at risk, as the
patient and their families topple into financial ruin.  The health care
system is broken NOW.  You may disagree with Obama's solution to the health
care crisis, but he is not wrong to say that we cannot go on as we have
been. 

 

By the way, we are the only major industrialized democracy that does not
provide universal health care for its citizens.  We have the most expensive
health care in the world, yet the care people receive gets worse by the day.
We're not even in the top ten for quality of care.  Is the health care
provided by these countries expensive?  Yes it is, and people's taxes are
correspondingly higher.  But, when people get sick they can go to the
doctor, and then get the care they need, great or small.  Wow, that's really
cool!!  I'm even old enough to remember when it used to be like that here in
the good old USA. 

 

If I have a choice between not receiving health care at all (hospitals,
operations, doctors visits) because I cannot afford it  and am literally
priced out of the system completely, or paying more taxes and receiving
quality health care whenever I need it, I pick the latter.  It's a no
brainer.  It can be done, it's already being done successfully in many other
countries less wealthy than this one.   And notice I said paying more taxes.
I'm not getting anything for free that way, I'm paying for it.  Just like
I'm already paying for my social security and Medicare, ahem..

 

To say that "the new O'care will collapse the economy." is stating a belief
or an assertion.  That is not the same thing as a statement of fact.  In
order for that to become a statement of fact, it has to be substantiated by
statistics and other facts.  Otherwise it is nothing more than fear
mongering, as it has been so readily bandied about. 

 

What, pray tell, is the more sinister motive that the rest of us (in our
drooling tranquilized stupor) seem to be missing?

 

Will Truitt

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org>
mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul McCloud
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 8:39 AM
To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemmawith pitch
raises

 

Hi, All:

    This story about this woman is indeed horrible.  The inconvenient truth
is, the new O'care will collapse the economy.  We simply don't have the
money, never mind the "Big Pharma", HMO's, PPO's, etc. who are crushing the
doctors and skewing their judgment.  In case you hadn't noticed, the United
States Government is broke, and we won't be able to pay the interest on the
debt.already.  So, you can dream about this wonderful system being
successful here, but in the end it will bury us.  The whole idea was to
insure those Americans who are uninsured, who have little income to pay for
expensive medical care.  Sounds cozy, right?  Gee, and they will vote for us
because we're doing them such a favor.  The real truth is, the whole
exercise is designed for something more sinister, and we're being sold down
the river.  But, "'tis folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss".  What I'm
trying to say is that we need to look at the big picture, and not be fooled
by the "free goodies" being passed out by the government to tranquilize the
population.  Jer might be paying 50% in expenses, but wait 'till the biggest
expense is our TAXES. 

    Paul McCloud

    San Diego, Kali-Fornia

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From:  <mailto:surfdog at metrocast.net> William Truitt

To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org

Sent: 11/01/2010 3:14:15 AM

Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemmawith pitch
raises

 

To David and all:

 

I have a friend who is a head nurse at our local hospital.  She has been
telling me recently how few paying patients and how many indigent patients
they have - sum total many empty beds.  A symptom of our expensive health
care combined with this deep recession.

 

Last week she told me of a woman who had been admitted with advanced breast
cancer - so far advanced that the diseased breast tissue emitted a very foul
smell, making their treatment of her medical needs very unpleasant to
accomplish.  (Which they are all continuing to do)

 

I don't mention this to gross anyone out on this forum.  This woman had no
health insurance, and she and her family had ignored her problem until she
was too sick to be at home and finally came to a hospital to die.  I know
nothing of her circumstances, but it seems likely that they felt they had no
options for her care as she became sicker.

 

I cannot think of a worse way to be sick than this.  No doubt she endured
great pain at home as her illness advanced, and without medication.  In
essence, she received no medical treatment until it was time to die.  At
this stage of her disease, the only thing she will gain as her disease
continues to advance is pain medication to ease her suffering until she
dies, which she is at least receiving now.

 

Of course, she is in intensive care.  Now, one of two things will happen:
One, her family will be saddled with staggering hospital bills that will put
them into financial ruin.  The terrible irony will be that, except for the
end of life care she is now receiving, she will have had no medical benefit
from adding on all this expense her family so feared and wanted to avoid,
and yet they will still lose everything.  Or two,  the hospital will be
saddled with these bills that make their financial existence less viable
with every passing day.  

 

I feel compassion for this woman and her family, yet she is far from alone
in her horrible circumstances - not with 50 million uninsured Americans and
that number still growing. 

 

I don't feel that the issues of medical care are off topic for this forum.
They affect every one of us.  As a statistical economic group, we're not at
the top of the food chain.  These days, many of us do not have health
insurance because we simply cannot afford it, period.  Along with so many
other Americans.  Or we are dramatically underinsured, which is also another
path to financial ruin. 

 

I do have very strong opinions about the politics of all this, but I am
withholding them.  I look at the plight of this poor woman and her family
and say to myself, "There but for fortune go I."

 

Will Truitt

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org>
mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of  <mailto:tnrwim at aol.com>
tnrwim at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 4:43 AM
To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemma with pitch
raises

 

 

We're on a pretty different page about this and I'm not into the conspiracy
theory aspect but it's not probably meant for this forum.  We all operate
with the intention of staying out of the hospital.  Sadly it doesn't always
work out that way and I have a couple of family members who are a testament
to that and the associated costs that they would be saddled with had they
not had insurance.  And yes, they are now well thanks to doctors and "Big
Pharma".  All I can say is good health and good luck but I'm keeping my
health insurance. 

 

David Love

David

 

I think you might be missing the point of Susan's rant. Although Susan
didn't have it, we all do need insurance. My wife broke her ankle a year
ago, and even though she had some limited insurance, we wound up paying
almost $20,000 out of pocket, out of a nearly $40,000 bill.

 

What Susan is right about, however, is that medicine, which used to be
basically no-profit, is now become a corporate giant, which only cares about
profits, and not the heath of our population. Doctors are forced, by the
HMO's they belong to, to order test after test, most of which are
unnecessary, not because there might be something wrong with you, but
because the HMO is covering their backsides, to protect them against
lawsuits. They order the tests because there is money to be made by them,
which makes the HMO's bottom line look better. The tests, in turn, are
charged to the insurance company which then raises rates to cover the
expense. And round and round it goes. Now the government want to get
involved, which means our taxes are going up. All because of the greed of
the HMO's, Big Pharma, and Insurance companies.

 

Yes, there are some very good thing happening in medicine, but don't get me
started about some of the meds that are absolutely useless, and/or
dangerous. Just listen to all the "side effects" of some of the med
commercials. These aren't "side effects". In most cases, these meds are
causing more harm than good.

 

This might not be directly related to piano work, but in a sense, it is
related to how much we make tuning pianos. When insurance rates go up, we
have to charge more to tune pianos. But when we charge more, customers are
reluctant to get their pianos tuned, which reduces our income. 
This is why it is imperative for us to stay healthy, and vote for the
candidates who will work to reduce our health costs.

 

end of rant.

 

Wim

-----Original Message-----
From: David Love < <mailto:davidlovepianos at comcast.net>
davidlovepianos at comcast.net>
To: pianotech < <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemma with pitch
raises

We're on a pretty different page about this and I'm not into the conspiracy
theory aspect but it's not probably meant for this forum.  We all operate
with the intention of staying out of the hospital.  Sadly it doesn't always
work out that way and I have a couple of family members who are a testament
to that and the associated costs that they would be saddled with had they
not had insurance.  And yes, they are now well thanks to doctors and "Big
Pharma".  All I can say is good health and good luck but I'm keeping my
health insurance. 

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com <http://www.davidlovepianos.com/> 

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
<mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> ] On Behalf Of Susan Kline
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:42 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemma with pitch
raises

 

On 10/31/2010 7:22 PM, David Love wrote:

Health insurance is expensive but getting out of a hospital stay with only a
$30,000 bill is cheap. It could easily be in the $100,000s plus. You insure
against catastrophe.


Warning: RANT in progress: 

David, this is true, as far as it goes. However, the very act of insuring
changes the medical system, and not just the fee structure either. The kind
of medicine practiced changes, especially once legal defensibility, peer
pressure among doctors, and the pressure of Big Pharma get scaled in. What
costs the most is what you end up with. So, not enough "primary care
physicians" and more and more specialists. Research only gets funded if it
leads to more expensive and more chronic pharmaceutical use. Very useful low
cost treatments and protocols have no defenders, because no one will get
rich from them. Whoever stands up for them will get bashed about by those
who make a lot of money from the lucrative  alternatives. In the end (and
we're nearly there) society ends up with a system so expensive and
dysfunctional that most of the time people would be better off if it didn't
even exist. 

Statins, for instance, a big money maker based on the total myth that
cholesterol causes heart disease, which has been disproven for decades. (If
one had to pick a single cause of heart disease, it would be FRUCTOSE.)
Statins are medically dangerous, ineffective for their announced purpose,
and expensive. Lipitor is the #1 prescribed drug in America (if I remember
what I read correctly) and it is medically useless and harmful for all but
the tiny fraction of the public who have hereditary super-high cholesterol. 

On the neurology site I found, the one with a very effective "nerve support
formula" for myelin problems (which were what I had), a whole section of the
testimonial page was filled by people who got neuropathy only from taking
statins. They go to neurologists, who only give them painkillers like
gabapentin, with a zillion side effects, which do nothing to heal nerves,
but the d ocs leave them on the statins causing their nerve damage.
Meanwhile, the website is selling a formula containing benfotiamine (a form
of Vitamin B-1 known for lessening the pain of neuropathy), and methyl B12
(a highly absorbable form of Vitamin B-12, also very helpful for myelin.) It
really does work. The pain in my hands lessened noticeably within a couple
days of starting it. It works by speeding healing, not by covering up pain.
So why don't the doctors give it to their patients? The only reason I can
imagine is that Big Pharma would be very annoyed. You'd be interfering with
their billions in profits. Some of the patients would get away, instead of
taking ineffective  painkillers (the analgesia wears off with repeated use)
the rest of their miserable lives.

Well, this is a piano list .... but I was very lucky that I had the money to
pay off that bill, and my local hospital is a _good_ hospital, a teaching
hospital which is well-run, and non-profit. What goin g to a bad hospital
would be like makes me shudder. 

In the end, with both insurance and government welfare blunting the feedback
on costs, and so many people getting wealthy off the medical system and its
associated industries, and government subsidizing high fructose corn syrup
which gives millions of people diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and obesity,
there is no insuring against catastrophe. There is not money enough on earth
to keep this whole ramshackle calamity we call "medical care" from breaking
down. 

I turn 65 next year. I'll do my level best never to give Medicare anything
to pay for. I think that doing one's best to avoid needing medical treatment
is a social duty, and also a form of self-preservation. It's not like most
of the common treatments WORK. My particular treatment (immunoglobulins to
stop the advance of Guillain Barre Syndrome) did work, and was needed and
appropriate. So I was glad it was there. 

Susan


  _____  


From: Susan Kline  <mailto:skline at peak.org> <skline at peak.org>

Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org

Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:00:37 -0700

To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> <pianotech at ptg.org>

ReplyTo: pianotech at ptg.org

Subject: Re: [pianotech] billing dilemma with pitch raises

 

Hi, Jer

A friend told me it was as if my life had pressed a great big RESET button.
You know how some weeks you get so tired, and say to yourself, "if only I
could take six months off!" (Beware what you ask for ...) I now feel lucky
it was only five months, and it did do a good number on the chronic fatigue,
just staying home. Double vision for five weeks was quite galling. 

$1,000 a year doesn't even get you in the door when it comes to medical
insurance. I investigated it in 1981, when I had come back to the US from
Canada. I was appalled. They wanted more for a month of insurance than I
expected to pay for normal medical care in several years. I was broke. I
just "said no." I'm sure it's only gotten worse since. 

I don't think I made a conscious decision about "full service" tuning (at
least in a minor version.) It just seemed the natural thing to do. I ha ted
seeing something wrong and just LEAVING it. 

Susan

On 10/31/2010 6:30 PM, Gerald Groot wrote:

I'm sorry to hear about your crisis.  That really sucks.

 

Spending what we do spend on health insurance, you are quite correct when
you say you could buy a whole lot of health insurance for that but, on the
other hand If we were to spend say about $10,000 a year or so with
deductibles or more, in 10 years, that's an easy $100,000.  In that regard,
you're ahead of the game there. 

 

Thanks for the conversation. I enjoyed it.  I do find the idea of full
service quite interesting and have an open mind to it, believe it or not. J

 

Jer

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Susan Kline
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 9:14 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] billing dilemma with pitch raises

 

On 10/31/2010 5:15 PM, Gerald Groot wrote:

We have phone's, insurance, business insurance, health insurance, life
insurance, some even carry ear insurance or hand insurance. 


We would have phones anyway. 

Not all of us have all that insurance. I, for instance, carry home owners
insurance and car insurance, and that's it. 

I admit people with a family would worry without life insurance, and maybe
some kind of disability or health insurance. I think that unless they are
very anxious types, most single people are better off without most of those
other insurances: the tool insurance, (HAND insurance??), liability
insurance (which just makes your pockets deep enough for someone to want to
sue you).

I went 30 years without health insurance, ever since coming home from
Canada. And last spring I became the poster child for what can happen as an
uninsured person gets older. Here I am, aged 64, and I had a medical crisis
and a hospital stay last May, and found myself with a hospital bill for
$30,500 (after negotiations.) Plus other do ctor bills. Okay ... my gosh,
how could she do without the insurance?? Well, first, if you prorate my
hospital bill for thirty years, you end up with about $1,000 per year -- you
couldn't buy a whole lot of health insurance for that. Second, these days if
you have been a good and faithful customer for years, paying premiums the
whole time, and you suddenly have a major medical cost, the companies have
whole rooms full of people whose only job is to go through your history with
a fine tooth comb, to find an excuse not to pay. Now, there is overhead for
you -- pay the insurance (at what I think are  exorbitant rates) and THEN
pay the medical costs yourself anyway, plus maybe some legal costs trying to
collect. 

To sum up again -- I think a very important skill for a person in business
is to keep overhead to the bare minimum. I don't remember Jer mentioning
advertising, but that's another one which I think most really good piano
techs should do without. Word of mout h does it all so much better, and is
scot free.

Susan Kline

 

 

 

 

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