Wim, I've noticed at classes of yours I've attended at onventions, that you and some other tuners (anybody know what ercentage?) have the ability, upon hearing a beating unison, to ut the offending string in its final beatless resting position, in set and everything, in one quick movement, without hardly hinking about it, whereas tuners like myself have much more of battle in getting it close with the first movement, but almost lways too far or not far enough, then having to make a second ovement, and even a third, fourth, up to 8 or 10 tries or more efore it's finally "dead on." David You've gotten some very good advice from others, but I think the main reason why it's taking you so long to tune a piano is because you're listening too much, and not acting upon what you hear. I agree with what Ron said, in that too many tuners wait to long upon hearing the note to make a decision what to do. As I put it, "stop listening, and start tuning." By that I mean, as soon as you hear that a string is off, do something, even if it's wrong. Move the string immediately. It will either get better or it will get worse. With the amount of experience you have, you should be able to tell immediately if you're going in the right direction. The other aspect of that is the hammer technique. I am a jerk tuner. (Yes I know, some people think I'm just a jerk, period, But that's another subject for another time). Jerk tuning is moving the hammer is a jerky manner, with control, kind of like how an impact lever works. If you jerk the hammer while hitting the key numerous times, it will set both the pin and string at the same time. That results in a much more stable tuning as you go. I, too, tune unisons as I go with my SAT. But I don't start with note 1. I start with the first note in the bass, and go down to note 1. Then I start with the first note in the treble, and go up to 88. When I get done with that first pass, which will take about 30 minutes, depending how bad the piano is, I turn off the SAT, and basically tune the piano by ear, starting with setting a F3-F4 temperament. I then go up, checking 10ths, double octaves, octave & fifth, etc.. This is followed by tuning bass. Total time is approximately 45 - 60 minutes. Even though you've been tuning for 30 years, perhaps it might be beneficial if got some tutoring. I will be doing that in KC next summer. But if you can't make it to the convention, perhaps some time with a tuner you respect and like in your chapter will help you. Wim -----Original Message----- From: David Nereson <da88ve at gmail.com> To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:06 am Subject: Re: [pianotech] shorter final tuning time with pitch raises; forearm smash avid You don't necessarily need to "sock" it to the piano to make it tay in tune. Yes, a couple of test blows on each note is mportant, but you don't need to use a forearm smack, either. I onder if perhaps the reason you're taking so much time on a iano is because while you're trying hard to listen, you don't now what to do with what you hear. Hearing a note out of tune s one thing. But knowing what to do with that note is another. Can you explain how you tune a piano. I mean, what are the steps ou take to tune, from temperament, to bass and treble tuning. erhaps we can offer you some advice to help you cut down your ime. Wim Well, to open myself to a possible barrage of criticism, 've been tuning for 30 years and have never been able to tune aster than 1 1/4 hrs., unless it's a piano that's already very lose to being in tune and needs only touch-up, then that takes 5 min., as on pianos that get tuned twice a year or more, or ust happen to hold a tuning exceptionally well. Most tunings ake me 1 1/2 hrs., more finicky tunings for clients with ritical ears or on nicer grands, usually 2 hours. If the ormer need a pitch raise, 2 1/2 hrs. Decades ago, I would pend 3 hrs. on a concert tuning. For 20 years I tuned by ear, setting A4 from the fork, then he temperament, then octaves up to C8 and down to A0, then pull he felt strips and tune unisons. But when I got an SAT 10 years ago, I started tuning from ottom to top (since that's the only sequence you can do without aving to press "buttons" in between each note). I do unisons s I go, and arriving at C8, when it should be "done," it never s, because I have no assurance that all those pins really tayed put, despite my repeated listenings and test blows, so I o back and do a final check and touch-up of anything that lipped, which takes another 1/2 hr. to an hour, depending how tubborn the piano is. Wim, I've noticed at classes of yours I've attended at onventions, that you and some other tuners (anybody know what ercentage?) have the ability, upon hearing a beating unison, to ut the offending string in its final beatless resting position, in set and everything, in one quick movement, without hardly hinking about it, whereas tuners like myself have much more of battle in getting it close with the first movement, but almost lways too far or not far enough, then having to make a second ovement, and even a third, fourth, up to 8 or 10 tries or more efore it's finally "dead on." Yes, I know about the concept of ental "bookkeeping" of how far off it was when first playing he out-of-tune unison, but translating that mental concept into physical movement is always waylaid by the flex of the pin, he flex of the hammer, the mushiness or jumpiness of the pin in he block, the ease or difficulty with with the strings render ver the bridges and through the agraffes or pressure bar, and ther factors. It seems the "nach'l-bawn" tuners are able to "go right to t" (the beatless spot), while I have to futz around, wiggling ack and forth, 15 blows per note before it's finally set, and hen I (anybody else, or is it just me?) come back for the final heck, and STILL find many notes that have drifted out or eren't properly "locked in" (that's all I meant by "socking it n" -- I didn't mean extremely heavy test blows, which cause it o drift sharp), and many of those that have drifted are ones hat I thought I "fixed"! In other words, after all these ears, a good portion of my tunings are still a "battle" or ajor "wrestling match." Maybe I'm not very good in moving the ammer in small enough increments, yet I do end up with an n-tune piano. I passed the exam. Many professionals, piano eachers, churches, schools, and other tuners are pleased with y work, and they call me back, so I'm doing something right -- ust not as fast as others. How you guys are "in and out" in 45 inutes or an hour is beyond me. Welp, now everybody knows. --David Nereson, RPT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20101103/0dd11992/attachment.htm>
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