Actually with the SAT you can pre program a sequence of any series of notes
David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: "David Nereson" <da88ve at gmail.com>
Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:40:45
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Reply-To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] shorter final tuning time with pitch raises;
forearm smash
Alan,
Yes, I'm aware of the 'automatic note down' or 'note up'
function. I should've said I was thinking more about
temperament and different sequences of tuning. With the SAT,
you pretty much have to proceed by half-steps, whether it's up
or down, whereas when you set a temperament aurally, you're
playing intervals. To check those on the SAT, you have to enter
each note by pressing buttons -- it won't automatically jump up
or down a 4th, 5th, or other interval.
--David Nereson
----- Original Message -----
From: <reggaepass at aol.com>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] shorter final tuning time with pitch
raises;forearm smash
David,
But when I got an SAT 10 years ago, I started tuning from
bottom to top (since that's the only sequence you can do without
having to press "buttons" in between each note).
I still have a first generation SAT ("I?"). The switch function
can be made to go down instead of up, by pressing and holding
the switch while pushing the Note Down button. I would imagine
that this is true for later models that still use a switch. If
the ones with automatic chromatic note switching are like
Cybertuner, then they follow you one semi-tone at a time,
whether up or down, without touching a thing.
Alan Eder
-----Original Message-----
From: David Nereson <da88ve at gmail.com>
To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:06 am
Subject: Re: [pianotech] shorter final tuning time with pitch
raises; forearm smash
David
You don't necessarily need to "sock" it to the piano to make it
stay in tune. Yes, a couple of test blows on each note is
important, but you don't need to use a forearm smack, either. I
wonder if perhaps the reason you're taking so much time on a
piano is because while you're trying hard to listen, you don't
know what to do with what you hear. Hearing a note out of tune
is one thing. But knowing what to do with that note is another.
Can you explain how you tune a piano. I mean, what are the steps
you take to tune, from temperament, to bass and treble tuning.
Perhaps we can offer you some advice to help you cut down your
time.
Wim
Well, to open myself to a possible barrage of criticism,
I've been tuning for 30 years and have never been able to tune
faster than 1 1/4 hrs., unless it's a piano that's already very
close to being in tune and needs only touch-up, then that takes
45 min., as on pianos that get tuned twice a year or more, or
just happen to hold a tuning exceptionally well. Most tunings
take me 1 1/2 hrs., more finicky tunings for clients with
critical ears or on nicer grands, usually 2 hours. If the
former need a pitch raise, 2 1/2 hrs. Decades ago, I would
spend 3 hrs. on a concert tuning.
For 20 years I tuned by ear, setting A4 from the fork, then
the temperament, then octaves up to C8 and down to A0, then pull
the felt strips and tune unisons.
But when I got an SAT 10 years ago, I started tuning from
bottom to top (since that's the only sequence you can do without
having to press "buttons" in between each note). I do unisons
as I go, and arriving at C8, when it should be "done," it never
is, because I have no assurance that all those pins really
stayed put, despite my repeated listenings and test blows, so I
go back and do a final check and touch-up of anything that
slipped, which takes another 1/2 hr. to an hour, depending how
stubborn the piano is.
Wim, I've noticed at classes of yours I've attended at
conventions, that you and some other tuners (anybody know what
percentage?) have the ability, upon hearing a beating unison, to
put the offending string in its final beatless resting position,
pin set and everything, in one quick movement, without hardly
thinking about it, whereas tuners like myself have much more of
a battle in getting it close with the first movement, but almost
always too far or not far enough, then having to make a second
movement, and even a third, fourth, up to 8 or 10 tries or more
before it's finally "dead on." Yes, I know about the concept of
mental "bookkeeping" of how far off it was when first playing
the out-of-tune unison, but translating that mental concept into
a physical movement is always waylaid by the flex of the pin,
the flex of the hammer, the mushiness or jumpiness of the pin in
the block, the ease or difficulty with with the strings render
over the bridges and through the agraffes or pressure bar, and
other factors.
It seems the "nach'l-bawn" tuners are able to "go right to
it" (the beatless spot), while I have to futz around, wiggling
back and forth, 15 blows per note before it's finally set, and
then I (anybody else, or is it just me?) come back for the final
check, and STILL find many notes that have drifted out or
weren't properly "locked in" (that's all I meant by "socking it
in" -- I didn't mean extremely heavy test blows, which cause it
to drift sharp), and many of those that have drifted are ones
that I thought I "fixed"! In other words, after all these
years, a good portion of my tunings are still a "battle" or
major "wrestling match." Maybe I'm not very good in moving the
hammer in small enough increments, yet I do end up with an
in-tune piano. I passed the exam. Many professionals, piano
teachers, churches, schools, and other tuners are pleased with
my work, and they call me back, so I'm doing something right --
just not as fast as others. How you guys are "in and out" in 45
minutes or an hour is beyond me.
Welp, now everybody knows.
--David Nereson, RPT
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