>Oct 10/18/10 11:16 AM David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net wrote: >It depends on the kind of filing you do and where the action is when you begin but it's really not >the point. It's a different procedure and should be identified as such was my point. >David Love >www.davidlovepianos.com Precisely. Lumping a whole lot of reconditioning tasks (hammer filing, small repairs, repinning, cleaning, lubrication, etc. etc.) under the rubric of "regulation" is unwise both from the marketing standpoint (I prefer to itemize the procedures both on my estimates and on my invoices) and the pedagogical perspective - where novices are overwhelmed by the enormity and complexity of "regulation" if it is all lumped together into a huge number of "steps" - many of which have nothing to do with "regulation" as I see it (which to my mind involves establishing the optimal relationship between various action components and functions through adjustments rather than cleaning, lubricating, replacing and repairing things. Two totally different mindsets and skill sets). In my practice, I work with a variety of clients and needs, each of which requires a "customized" approach to action work. In institutional work (or on pianos belonging to professional musicians) one must always do triage in terms of how much time the instrument can be out of service, and in terms of available resources. Then again, pianos that are serviced frequently (say every two-three years), can often be brought back to optimal with a light filing (for voicing purposes) and a quick regulation touchup (and in such a case letoff is barely affected - if at all) - without going through a complex and expensive procedure. Of course, pianos that had been neglected for years would need the extensive work described by Al - where what could be called "pre-regulation" (all the repairs, cleaning. lubricating, etc. etc. need to be done) in which case - like David - I will take the action into the shop, do all the cleaning-repair-lubrication-etc.etc. and bench-regulate it, completing fine regulation and vocing at the clients home (I book at least a full day for that - with an option to come back later, if necessary). >From a pedagogical perspective, separating "pre-regulation" from "regualtion" can go a long way in preventing "information overload" (which is one of the grat bugaboos for novices in understanding regulation: too much information, much of which isn't very helpful in understanding how to make the regulation adjustments - which require a different mindset and a different skill set than the preliminary stuff. Best to treat them separately...). So perhaps it might be a good idea to develop a more precise terminology for different classes of action work that currently are lumped under "regulation" by many technicians (and, I might add, some manufacturers) - and hope it could be more universally adopted. If only to prevent these fruitless arguments about the proper way to regulate - when the respective sides are talking apples and oranges... Israel Stein From: "Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft" < AlliedPianoCraft at hotmail.com > Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:01:13 -0400 To: < pianotech at ptg.org > ReplyTo: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Regulating, was curve was glide .......after all, you can file hammers and clean, polish and voice without regulating. Can you really? What just happened to the letoff after you filed the hammers? Oh, OK, let me just adjust the letoff. Oh. wait a minute, now I need to fix the drop. Oh wait, the springs. And so on and so on. I guess I have been using the wrong terminology. When I sell a "regulating", I'm saying to my customer that I will make their piano the best that it can be with the existing part. Everything working to the highest level and peak performance. I sell the whole package. You know the term "Be all that you can be." I can't make a Knabe a Steinway, but I will make the Knabe perform to its highest level with the existing parts. I not judging others or saying their way is wrong, I'm just saying that's the way I do it. At this point I guess I need to come up with a better term to describes what I'm doing and what my customers are getting for their money. Al - High Point, NC From: David Love Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:38 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Regulating, was curve was glide Yes that is true. I don’t consider cleaning, filing hammers, or voicing “regulating”. Since the needs of each piano will vary I approach each job individually and don’t lump everything under the umbrella of regulating. Hammer filing, cleaning, voicing are different things than regulating and while some of them might be done in advance of the actual regulation procedure (except voicing which should be done after and probably on site rather than in the shop) I try and avoid confusion by separating the procedures—after all, you can file hammers and clean, polish and voice without regulating. I don’t move the piano to my shop for the work you describe. In this area that can add another $700 to the job (or more) for moving and I see that as an unnecessary expense for the customer, money that might be better spent on something else the piano needs and also which goes into my pocket, not the movers. So in answer to your question when I “sell” a regulating job I do what is necessary always mindful of the needs and budget considerations of the customer. I describe the procedures that are required and the benefits of each. If there are budget considerations I make recommendations about where to prioritize, whether omitting something now might result in additional costs later because of duplicated work, etc. I try and educate customers as much as possible about the piano so that they can make informed decisions now and in the future. If they want to do something that doesn’t make sense I let them know. If the action requires the replacement of any parts, balance rail punchings, key rest felt, key end felt, etc., then I remove the action to the shop, replace the necessary parts, rough regulate on the bench do the final regulation on site in the piano. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft [ mailto:AlliedPianoCraft at hotmail.com ] Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:58 AM To: davidlovepianos at comcast.net ; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Regulating, was curve was glide David, I guess that's the answer. It all depends on what we consider regulating. There are some good techs that go into someone's home for a day or less and get maybe $500 for a regulating. When I sell a regulating I get over $2000 and the piano comes into my shop. My regulating procedure is about 35 steps, including shaping the hammers, voicing, adjusting the dampers, adjusting the trap-work, cleaning the action and keys, polishing capstans, etc, etc, etc. I try to get the piano as close to factory+ as it can be made, without rebuilding or installing new parts. Of course any new action parts, hammers, key bushings, damper felts are all at an additional cost. I guess that could be the next topic. How much do you do when you sell a complete regulating? Al - High Point, NC From: David Love Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 3:47 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] was curve now glide I guess I would consider that "preregulation" David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: "Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft" < AlliedPianoCraft at hotmail.com > Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:21:19 -0400 To: < pianotech at ptg.org > ReplyTo: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] was curve now glide I always remove the key and stack when I do an action regulating. I clean the action frame, key, felts, etc. I check the integrity of the keys, felts, action parts and frame. I truly can't imagine anyone doing a complete action regulating without doing that. Al - High Point, NC From: David Love Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:34 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] was curve now glide Why would I remove the stack and keys to regulate the piano? Unless I’m leveling the keys from scratch I perform all regulating procedures with the action assembled and that includes even minor changes in the key leveling. There can be, as Ed Foote and Paul R-J pointed out, problems with bedding arising from poor stack fitting or irregularities in the key bed but I find that these problems (or that there is a problem) become evident and push you in the direction of taking an additional step to discover the nature of the problem which may very well be removing the keys. But most of the time, it’s unnecessary and doesn’t produce a more accurate bedding than the method I described, at least that’s what I find. I’m just offering this as another way to approach it whichever way people want to do it is fine with me. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft [ mailto:AlliedPianoCraft at hotmail.com ] Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 5:19 AM To: davidlovepianos at comcast.net ; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] was curve now glide Yes, true, but when you are regulating a piano, don't you remove the stack and keys? That's my point, if you have the stack and key off, I think it's an easier, better way to do it. But if you are not regulating the piano, there is nothing wrong with fitting the frame with the keys on. I do it all the time. Al - High Point, NC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20101018/82586aea/attachment-0001.htm>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC