Well, let's see if we could clear up a few misunderstandings... On 11:59 AM, John Formsma wrote: > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Kent > Swafford <kswafford at gmail.com > <mailto:kswafford at gmail.com>> wrote: > > > KS > One possibility is the fact that > you use a specific ETD that I > determined about a dozen years ago > is not the one that is best suited > to my needs. > > > JM > And you were using which one? OnlyPure > or RCT? Thanks for clearing this up, John. I am familiar with the Accutuner and the Cybertuner. I see that in a response to your question this got cleared up even more. Well, it doesn't really matter, but I am not going to run out and buy OnlyPure for the once-in-a-blue moon that I get to do a real recording session (see below) when my Cybertuner and ears do me fine... > That said, I reject the notion > that the 15 minute touch-up is a > special or unusual situation. Take > for example the tuning I completed > this morning: > > Many tunings are done with an > absolute deadline. I strongly > suspect that your 15 minute > recording studio touch up closely > resembles the last 15 minutes of > any tuning done on deadline. > > The 1098 I tuned this morning was > right at the margin of needing a > pitch correction, so the final > refinement pass included the > possibility that sections of the > piano had drifted, just like your > recording studio situation. > > > > Maybe I'm misreading this, but it > seems that this is a slightly > different situation than what Israel > meant. It appears that you were > already seated at the piano, had > completed the first pass, and were > going back over it to refine. John - you are essentially right, but for several different reasons. First let's discuss what I mean by "working a recording session". I don't mean tuning the piano in the morning - and perhaps coming back in the afternoon, or the next day, or two and a half days later to "touch it up". This I would treat as any other tuning - use whatever tools I have available (including the ETD) to get the best tuning that I can, in the time allotted - without regard to anything else. Under such circumstances, I figure that the original tuning has been messed up enough by the time I am (or someone else is) back for the touchup, they will have issues with splicing no matter what I do or don't do. "Working a recording session" is what (I think) Dave Doremus was referring to - getting paid for being in attendance throughout the recording session, no matter how many days (or nights) it takes. This is how I got into this line of work - the sessions went a lot longer than planned, started interfering with the primary tuner's life in a big way - so they had to provide a substitute. I was available, and - apparently - they felt they could trust me. When I did sessions myself, I would tune the piano before anyone got there (using my ETD-du-jour as needed) and then stand by. I have no idea how the piano was tuned when I subbed for a predecessor - all I had is my ears to find out what kind of basic tuning I was dealing with. And several times it was made clear to me that as long as they are still recording the same movement or the same short piece - I should take the minimalist approach and avoid moving strings unless absolutely necessary and then as little as necessary. So I would sit there, read a book, listen to the music... Sometimes they would ask me to turn pages... I get called upon to do a " quick check and touch up" for one of two reasons: 1. The musicians (or one of the musicians) "hit the wall" in the middle of recording a movement - they can't do what they want without a break. They don't want to break for too long - maybe ten, fifteen minutes, just to get re-focused (without losing momentum...) I want to be done by the time they are ready to go again... 2. Someone hears something that bothers them. So I am supposed to come in there and fix 'the false note" while the pianist is sitting there and watching - and (if it's chamber music) so are the string players. This is where I have to fix what bothers them as fast as possible - and get the "H" out of there, so that they can resume their work, and keep the interruption to a minimum so that they don't lose momentum. Not a good time to be setting up the machinery. And I don't know how much good it will do me for fixing a note or two... So: > That 15 minutes is different than > having 15 minutes to get in and get > out. Viz., > > 1. You already had the tuning file > open and had just used it > 2. The piano case was already open > 3. Your tools were already out and > availableThough I don't have to > do any recording tuning or > concert touch-up work, I can > envision that a 15-minute > touch-up might involve only 10 > minutes of "intimate" time with > the piano. I would imagine: > > 1. Arriving and having to extricate > tuning gear, including the ETD > opened to your saved file, > mutes, and lever (maybe you > could already have these in hand) > 2. Opening the piano case > 3. Assessing where the worst > offenders are, and dealing with > them first. > The main problem here is having to go from zero to sixty tuning-wise (no matter what method one uses) with no "warm-up", after sitting around for an hour or more. Having done a pass or two in preparation for this 15 minute "final pass" has you going at full tilt - having to go in cold and get "up-to-speed" to do what amounts to a final pass is a whole different experience. So yes, in a 15 minute touch up, some time is spent "getting up to speed". > As one goes through the scale, > drift is immediately apparent by > watching the display; as long as > the drift is relatively uniform > without sudden changes, > > > Conceded, but in 15 minutes can one > even be concerned with "relatively > uniform" drift? That's what we'd have > to do aurally. I would think the only > reasonable expectation in a touch-up > is dealing with individual strings > and/or notes that have drifted. > > the drift may not be particularly > audible in aural checks, so there > may be no absolute need to retune > just to suit the display, nor to > (off)set the machine. > > > > I guess maybe it depends on how fast > aural tuners can interpret the aural > checks they hear. When I'm in "fast > and furious" mode, I can hear faster > than I could play and look at an ETD. > I think that's what Israel meant > (although certainly not trying to put > words in his virtual mouth). > > > And it seems that if you're not > correcting for drift, you're sort of > guesstimating how to make your ETD > "corrections" (since no offset was > selected). Drawing from my past > experience with ETD, you'd probably > tune so the spinner (or functional > equivalent thereof) would be as "off" > as its neighbors. Which is essentially > what an aural tuner would do. > > > Fingers can still be used to mute > strings of the trichords needing > attention, and having noted the > general level of drift of previous > notes, it is easy to determine > which string(s) moved (the most) > and make appropriate corrections > in the strings that will yield the > best temperament. This appears to > me to be one of the best reasons > for using an ETD because one can > easily analyze the mistake before > making any "corrections", and help > one enhance, not exacerbate, the > quality of the temperament when > time is so short. > > > Temperament would be last on my list > of things to correct or enhance. > > For myself, I would find it easier to > do aurally what you mentioned, > starting from the center: 17ths up and > down, P12s up and down. That way, > you've assessed the worst offenders > and deal with them. > > Not really arguing due to my lack of > experience in recording and/or concert > touch-up sessions. But I have had to > work really fast. And I did have one > experience with a tuning that someone > else did that had drifted during the > recording session (It was over two > days, and there had been no touch-ups > at all). I certainly wouldn't have had > access to his ETD file, so I assessed > it aurally, and made slight changes to > make it better. The musicians were > happy. And I thought it was pretty > darn cool to be able to walk in with > no batteries required ... and fix it. > Well, "fix" is all relative, since I > couldn't retune the whole thing (what > it really needed ... but they were in > session already). Make better is all I > could do. But it surely felt good to > do it. <G> > > -- > JF -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20110207/930ae384/attachment-0001.htm>
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