[pianotech] Clunky Noises

[Gerald Groot]

Hi David,

Do the process of elimination.  Take out the key completely.  Sometimes just
holding the key down can fool us into thinking we have eliminated it as a
culprit when it may still be a part of the problem.  But if you remove the
key instead, it will completely eliminate it for sure real quick like...
Unhook the bridal wire.  Now you have eliminated the hammer from working
with the wippen.  Eliminate each part as necessary, until you can narrow
down the noise to a certain part of the action or to a certain area in the
action.  Take the "stuff" out if you have too and check the center pins,
felts, etc.  

Hold the damper away from the wires so that too, is completely eliminated as
a possible noise maker.  

As for the felt, I would just set a piece of felt on top of the capstan to
see if that makes it go away as the sticker comes down onto the capstan.
Check the alignment of the capstan to where it engages the felt on the
sticker.  I have had it where the key warped or something and the capstan
was juuuust hitting the edge of the wood of the sticker.  

2 more ¢ worth.  

Jer

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Nereson
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:11 PM
To: joegarrett at earthlink.net; pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Clunky Noises


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joseph Garrett" <joegarrett at earthlink.net>
To: "pianotech" <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Cluinky Noises


> No where do I see where any felt, of any consequence, has been 
> replaced, wth the exception of the sticker felt.

        It's lifting up the wippen, with the back of the key 
held down, and letting the wippen and its extension (sticker) 
drop onto the capstan, that makes the loud clunk.  Thus the 
reason for trying new sticker cloth.

>> I am curious what type f sticker system and how the felt is 
>> glued on.

        It's the type found in, I'd say, 90% of old uprights --  
the long extensions with a sticker tongue and sticker tongue 
flanges screwed to a sticker rail, i.e., not dowel capstans, not 
stickers that are pinned to the keys, not rockers.  I'm 99% sure 
the felt is glued on with hide glue, as was almost everything 
back in 1918 (when this one was built).


>>The reason for felt, (with the exception ofthe hammers), is to 
>>quiet the mating parts. I would suggest, new key frame felt, 
>>as a start. then the hammer rail felt, including the hammer 
>>rail rest felt, (what everyone likes to add felt to.<G>)

    Yes, I may go that route, but I thought there might be some 
simpler thing I was missing that could be attended to first. 
The hammer shanks returning to the rest rail don't make much 
noise.  The back rail cloth may be a culprit, but I don't think 
the balance and front rail punchings are, since even when 
holding the key immobile, the wippen/extension clunks when 
lifted and dropped onto the capstan.
    The hammer rail rest felt (by which I assume you mean the 
cushions between the bottom of the hammer rail and the action 
brackets) comes into play only when using the soft pedal.

>>Possible ways to quiet such noises, is to isolate the action 
>>from the key bed/sound board as best as possible. I've added 
>>felt to the tops of the action bracket bolts...(of course, I 
>>had to reset them lower, to maintain the strike points).

        You mean adding felt to the tops of the action REST 
bolts?  I've seen some makes where the tops of these have 
leather, installed by the factory.

>>Getting rid of the "clunks" can really be challenging. There 
>>are some pianos that simply defy any attempts, so don't 
>>promise the farm.<G>

> Regards,
> Joe
> Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
> Captain of the Tool Police
> Squares R I

        Well, yes, I did tell her that all actions make a little 
noise and I won't be able to make it entirely inaudible.  But 
replacing hammer rail cloth and back rail cloth sound like the 
two best things to do besides replacing the sticker cloth.
    --David Nereson, RPT