[pianotech] balance hole break-loose noise

[Alan Eder]

Hi William,


Thanks for your input.






-----Original Message-----
From: William Monroe <bill at a440piano.net>
To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2011 3:46 am
Subject: Re: [pianotech] balance hole break-loose noise


It sounds to me like the glue sizing created the problem.  


Agreed.


I'm unfamiliar with Elmer's white glue and how it dries, not having used it, but I'm guessing it does not dry "hard" or "brittle" like a hide glue.  I'd suspicion that the white glue is "grabbing" the key pins.  At this point, I guess you're idea of painting with lubricant is possibly a "quicker fix" but I'd guess the problem will return.  


I suspect the same (though I may just try and see).


It sounds to me like machining out the holes and replacing the wood would be the best recourse.  


Sad, but true.


I'd be concerned about the glue causing problems down the road with any treatment that doesn't remove/replace the contact surface.


Deliberately over-easing the holes sounds like anything but a solution to me.  I don't think it's a good idea to try and solve a problem by creating a condition that we would otherwise describe as a problem.  


Agreed again.  Over-easing .  There is a remote possibility that Protek could be an end-game ('though, again, I share your doubt), but over-easing alone is certainly not an end-game, but was meant as a diagnostic, possibly a first step.  Considering over-easing the holes to the point of getting rid of the noise (if that is even possible) and then glue sizing with another kind of glue.  What substance and/or technique do you use to reduce enlarged balance rail pin holes?


Now you're going to have increased chucking, noise from the chucking and I don't think it will do anything to eliminate the noise from the glue.


You are probably right about this.  If I try it, I'll let you know.


FWIW
William R. Monroe


Alan






On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Alan Eder <reggaepass at aol.com> wrote:


List,


After I glue-sized the balance pin holes (nearly ALL of them), the client noticed a "scrunchie" sound, at the very beginning of the keystroke, and most noticeable when the action has not been played for a while (i. e., after one or two repeated strokes, the noise abates--but only to return after the key has spent some time at rest).  The glue-sizing solution was Elmer's white glue and water.  The keypins have been well-lubricated.  Since this problem has come to light, I have reamed out the holes of offending keys and steamed the holes to eliminate chucking (AKA "pulley keys," due to the hole being either elongated front-to-back from playing, or by over-easing).  My records indicate that some of the previous offenders have become repeat offenders, despite the reaming and steaming.  For reasons unrelated to this particular problem, we replaced the balance rail pins.  The "scrunchie" sound was there both before and after changing them out.  As I lose ever increasing amounts of time wrestling with this, I am contemplating doing two things that I have not done before, either 1) painting the insides of the balance rail holes in the keys with Protek (in the hope that this will keep the wood around the balance hole from sticking to the balance rail pin), or; 2) deliberately over-easing them (in the hope that not having contact all the way around between the pin and the hole could be a solution).


Has anyone else ever had this problem?  Thoughts about possible remedies?


Thanks,


Alan Eder



 







 
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