Wim! That's 8 syllables! We only need to count to 7, hense the "fromchicagotonewyork" thing. Let's go with that. From: "tnrwim at aol.com<mailto:tnrwim at aol.com>" <tnrwim at aol.com<mailto:tnrwim at aol.com>> Reply-To: "pianotech at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>" <pianotech at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>> Date: Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:52 PM To: "pianotech at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>" <pianotech at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Possible adaptation for the Tuning Exam Maybe Duanie;I have a take on this? Try this Duaine. Get your ETD set to set F-3 and A-3 and hear 7 beats per second. Can you hear the beats? I use "From Chicago to New York" as my 7 beats per second> Does that work? Try it and see what happens. fromchicagotonewyorkfromchicagotonewyorkwawawawawawawawawawawawawawaww etc.Just get the groove and see what happens! Let me know if you can hear that beat going on.Just trying to help bud. PW Duaine If you don't want drive from Chicago to New York, you might want to go fromst.louistochicago. It's a much shorter drive, and you can go back the same way, along Route 66, or what's left of it. lol Wim -----Original Message----- From: Paul Williams <pwilliams4 at unl.edu<mailto:pwilliams4 at unl.edu>> To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>> Sent: Sun, Nov 11, 2012 1:38 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Possible adaptation for the Tuning Exam That's beautiful! If one can't hear it, one can't tune it. That's all. Your descriptions are very clear! Love it! I don't think Duaine hears it all that well. Just my take on it. Maybe Duanie;I have a take on this? Try this Duaine. Get your ETD set to set F-3 and A-3 and hear 7 beats per second. Can you hear the beats? I use "From Chicago to New York" as my 7 beats per second> Does that work? Try it and see what happens. fromchicagotonewyorkfromchicagotonewyorkwawawawawawawawawawawawawawaww etc.Just get the groove and see what happens! Let me know if you can hear that beat going on.Just trying to help bud. PW On 11/11/12 4:47 PM, "Encore Pianos" <encorepianos at metrocast.net<mailto:encorepianos at metrocast.net>> wrote: >Duane: > >No one has put it simply enough yet: You can't tune an acceptable >temperament or anything else in the piano using a pitch pipe or an octave >set of tuning forks because of I-N-H-A-R-M-O-N-I-C-I-T-Y, Duane. That's >what the others are talking about when they use the word stretch. Did you >know that your ETD measures inharmonicity and calculates a tuning with >algorithms based on those measurements? That's why the ETD tuning can >sound >good, and why a skilled aural tuning can sound good. It's also the reason >why when you are at a church you cannot tune a piano to an organ note for >note. If you do not have a good working understanding of inharmonicity, >here's a place to start, Wikopedia. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inharmonicity There's a lot more to it than >that regarding pianos, but you really need to have at least a basic >understanding of inharmonicity before you can begin to hold up your half >of >an intelligent conversation with others on this list concerning how a >piano >is tuned. If you do not know about inharmonicity or understand it, you>will >not understand why the choices that are made by man or machine in tuning >are >being made. > >I'll even do some of the work for you, from Wikopedia: > >Inharmonicity leads to stretched tuning > >When pianos are tuned by ear by technicians called piano tuners, the >technician listens for the sound of "beating" when two notes are played>together, and tunes to the point that minimizes roughness between tones. >Piano tuners must deal with the inharmonicity of piano strings, which is >present in different amounts in all of the ranges of the instrument, but >especially in the bass and high treble registers. The result is that >octaves >are tuned slightly wider than the harmonic 2:1 ratio. The exact amount >octaves are stretched in a piano tuning varies from piano to piano and >even >from register to register within a single piano-depending on the exact >inharmonicity of the strings involved. > >Because of the problem of inharmonicity, electronic piano tuning devices >used by some piano technicians are not designed to tune according to a >simple harmonic series. Rather, the devices use various means to duplicate >the stretched octaves and other adjustments a technician makes by ear. The >most sophisticated devices allow a technician to make custom inharmonicity >measurements--simultaneously considering all partials for pitch and volume >to determine the most appropriate stretch to employ for a given >instrument. >Some include an option to simply record a tuning that a technician has >completed by ear; the technician can then duplicate that tuning on the >same >piano (or others of similar make and model) more easily and quickly. > >The issues surrounding setting the stretch by ear vs machine have not been >settled, machines are better at deriving the absolute placement of >semitones >within a given chromatic scale, whereas non-machine tuners prefer to >adjust >these locations preferentially due to their temptation to make intervals >more sonorous. The result is that pianos tuned by ear and immediately >checked with a machine tend to vary from one degree to another from the>purely theoretical semitone (mathematically the 12th root of two) due to >human error and perception. (If pleasing the ear is the goal of an aural >tuning, then pleasing the math is the goal of a machine tuning.) This is >thought to be due to the fact that strings can vary somewhat from note to >note and even from neighbors within a unison. This non-linearity is >different from true falseness where a string creates false harmonics and >is >more akin to minor variations in string thickness, string sounding length >or >minor bridge inconsistencies. > >Piano tuning is a compromise-both in terms of choosing a temperament to>minimize out-of-tuneness in the intervals and chords that will be played, >and in terms of dealing with inharmonicity. For more information, see >Piano >acoustics and Piano tuning. > >Another factor that can cause problems is the presence of rust on the >strings or dirt in the windings.[5] These factors can slightly raise the >frequency of the higher modes, resulting in more inharmonicity. > >While others may offer somewhat differing interpretations of what is said >here, it is at least simple and straightforward to get you into the >ballpark >of what is going on. > >Will Truitt > >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?>] On >Behalf >Of Paul Williams >Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 4:47 PM >To: pianotech at ptg.org<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> >Subject: Re: [pianotech] Possible adaptation for the Tuning Exam > >True; true A 440 is the way to go If you can't set A-440 first, then you >can't take the test period! >Paul > >On 11/11/12 3:07 PM, "Jon Page" <jonpage at comcast.net<mailto:jonpage at comcast.net>> wrote: > >>If you can't hear beats, you can't use a tuning fork. You have to hear >>the beats to 'zero' it in. >> >>Or is it that you can hears the beats on unisons and octaves but the >>intervals elude you. Take the time, listen closer. Have a tuner guide >>you as to what to listen to. >> >>A pitch pipe's pitch will vary by the degree of air flow. A harder blow >>will create a higher pitch. Temperature would be another variable. >> >>I saw one tuner strike the fork on his knee and then hold the end >>between his teeth, this allowed him to play the note and tune >>simultaneously. It worked for him but it looked really weird. >> >>To set your A or C from a fork, tune the corresponding note to the fork >>and then tune the note an octave lower to that note. Check the lower >>note with the fork, listen to the beat rate and adjust lower note to >>the octave to be the same beat rate sharp or flat. Check lower note>>against fork. If off, tune the upper note to the new beat rate. Check >>upper note against fork. If necessary, adjust the lower note to the>>beat rate. Once you have established the lower note pure with the fork, >>tune the upper note to it. Proceed with your temperament. >> >>But if you can't discern beats, stick with an ETD. >> >>-- >>Regards, >> >>Jon Page >> >> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/20121111/06ef8ce9/attachment.htm>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC