Ron said: "No, not like Ron. I don't use pliers of any sort, most especially NOT the long nose Vise Grips (which I've yet to find a use for), to make the loop. I built a mandrel and wire guide into the tool to bend the loop. The only time I use pliers is to wind the tail. Look at the tool." Ron, Well, excuse me. I misunderstood your sneer at the roundnose pliers. As for the Long NoseVice Grips, I've found several good uses for them. I guess you need to buy a pair and experiment around a bit, as I did. You say: "Look at the tool.", well it's difficult if you don't "show" the tool. All of this, is personal preferrences, I think. What ever works to create consistent German Loops, .then go for it.<G> Joe Garrett, R.P.T. Captain of the Tool Police Squares R I
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