psycho-acousti-what?

[Mark Cramer]

Your replys are helpful in clarifying the problem.

Rotating my head (no, not 360 degrees) makes the problem disappear.

The hollow heads (I presume you were referring to the hammers,
Newton!)sounds plausible.

Switching hammers around, how could I forget to do this!?

Moving the piano(s) does not provide a difference;
two different pianos, two very different rooms/same sound.

Have single needled through between crown and molding,
leads me to believe this effect (loud bong/no sustain)has nothing to do with
the hammer-felt whatsoever.

Ths sound is distinctly "point source and directional." It comes right from
the area of the scale in which you are playing, and if your right ear is
angled towards the piano,.."wham!"

The phenomenon is not subtle, and is apparent in individual notes as well as
intervals.

Again, the idea of a glue hollow in the hammerhead(s)may fit. It also
suggests why two pianos of the same mfg. and vintage share the problem.
Especially knowing how this factory (and again, not to criticize) prepares
the butt end of the shank for glueing.

More ideas are welcome, I will see this piano again within the next two
weeks to test them out.

So nice to troubleshoot as a "team!"

best regards,
Mark Cramer,
Brandon University



----Original Message-----
From: owner-caut@ptg.org [mailto:owner-caut@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Mark
Cramer
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 2:52 PM
To: caut@ptg.org
Subject: psycho-acousti-what?


A year ago, a client told me she had several notes on her (Baldwin) console
that physically hurt her ear when she played them.

I tried the notes, which were the first few above the tenor/treble break,
and noted they were a bit harsh, but thought (to myself) maybe she was
exagerating a bit.

I tried them as major thirds, which she had been playing, and nothing. Then
I turned my head a bit in her direction, played them again, and "Ouch!" It
was as though someone was pressing their finger between my upper jaw-bone
and ear!
Definitely painful!

I remember trying every bit of "voicing voodoo" I know, to no avail. Indeed,
I had forgotten about this til yesterday. A music teacher with a Baldwin (no
I'm not picking on brands) 52" vertical, who never seemed pleased with the
treble, said the magic words; "it hurts!"

It's exactly the same phenomenon! At first listen, these hammers "sound"
soft at the crown, but hard, very hard in the shoulders. The sound is a big
muffled boom, but with little sustain.

I went at C5 on the big upright with a single needle to probe the shoulder,
certain I would fined hardener,.. but nothing. The shoulder felt is soft,
much easeir to needle than a Renner, Yamaha, etc., even at the crown. I
needled all over the place, and could not change the sensation of the tone
one little bit!

What is the problem?

If you have experienced this, you will know exactly what I'm talking about,
and I would sure love to hear from you. Yes, especially if you've been able
to solve it.

On my next visit, I'm taking a variety of hammers to test, but I'm not so
sure hammers are the problem!?

thanks, as always

Mark Cramer,
Brandon University