Jeff writes: In my mind, the main reason to use an HT is to try to recreate what composers might have heard when they were composing. That appears to be a massive undertaking. There is actually just one form of non-ET that has much of a historical documentation. Of course, every tuner did them differently, but the differences are not in order of tempering but in how much. The tuning before ET was done so that the widths of the tonic thirds of the keys increased as one moved around the circle of fifths. Certain tunings had very characteristic amounts, such as the Kirnberger III with it pure C-C-E and three full comma thirds(Ab, C# and F#). The Werckmeister III also has three full commas in its thirds, but without the pure C-E, it manages to offer several intermediate keys with less tempering, etc. The Young, in its perfection of symmetry, has only one 21 cent third, but nothing pure. In all of these forms, the temperament has a recognizable palette of dissonance, rising with the distance from C. The same form is exhibited in the Victorian tunings,so there seems to be a continuum in the tempering philosophy all the way through. Learning the Kirnberger aurally doesn't require hundred of hours, maybe a couple of hours, at most. However, it may be more beneficial to spend an afternoon with Jorgensen's instructions for "tuning to taste". It will heighten your sense of tonal contrast while at the same time creating a valuable tool for your own personal journey into new territory. >>I tried an HT last semester for a rehearsal for a performance of a Haydn piece using a fortepiano. <snip> suggested the Valotti, so that's what I used. The piece was in D and Valotti is supposed to work in D. Well, I later learned that the ensemble had a very difficult time with intonation, So, maybe earlier composers works were not influenced by the temperaments they had to work with than bound by them? Perhaps Graupner understood Haydn well enough to know what his music worked well with? It is difficult to judge a temperament's intrinsic value when an ensemble attempts to use it for the first time. There are just too many variables. What was their intonation like before? How did the manage with ET? I have measured some really nice sounding quartets and they were nowhere near ET most of the time. So, I don't normally speak of temperaments use with other musicians. However, the use of a Young for a Beethoven concerto had the audience totally mesmerized. Nobody knew why the piano and orchestra sounded so good together, (I had only told the pianist), but the dean of the school later told me he had never heard the piano sound so good, and the orchestra's conductor told me that they had never played with better intonation. go figure! >> Now this argument that historical temperaments "sound better" is just a little too much to swallow. In what key do they sound better?<< Well, in ET, every third is out of tune by 13 cents. Every one of them. In a Young, five keys are less tempered, two are virtually identical, and five are more highly tempered. Given the normal use of keys by composers between Bach and Chopin, there will be less total dissonance with a Young than ET. You would have to use all keys the same amount to produce the same sum total of dissonance as ET, and that is not how the distribution of the keys usage occurred. However, the more remote keys were often used to good effect, ie, extremely expressive passages were often in more "dissonant" keys. Also, if you graph the keys used by composers of that era, you find that there is a direct correlation between the amount of tempering and the number of times the composers chose the keys. Very few pieces were in F#, many, many were in C, F,G, . In fact, Beethoven and Mozart's output, when graphed by the circle of fifths, will mimic the same shape as the WT temperament graphs! Is this sheer coincidence? I don't think so. (LVB did favor Eb over everything, but otherwise, his usage is a mirror image of the tempering. Chopin's use is exactly opposite, he used the consonant keys the least, but the shape of his graph is still a mirror image. >>Wasn't the discovery of theoretical ET a watershed which allows for total movement throughout the keys without the ugly changes in intonation? (which some refer to as "color"). What is "ugly" to the tech might be beautiful to the musically inclined listener. That is my experience. >>And if your professors are telling you to just "stick with ET"... Then you must. The idea is to educate them in a gradual way, so that their sense of tonality grows. A sudden change will often scare them off. I used to introduce musicians to non-ET with the Young, but I lost about 30% of them. When I began starting them off on a Broadwood or Moore and Co., the acceptance rate went up to 99%. Many of them have since progressed to the point of appreciating and preferring stronger tunings. Your choices as a tuner will have a great effect on the musician's reaction to change. In another letter, Jeff asks: If we "start out" with "milder modern" alternative temperament creations, then where's the authenticity of the historical temperament? Even using Victorian Temperaments, which as I understand it, were the best attempts possible at the time of achieving ET, wouldn't be representative for earlier compositions. It seems to me that the whole process then becomes something more of a novelty -- something different to offer, but not necessarily authentic to the period, composer, or composition.<< Using a modern piano for Bach, Beethoven, or Schubert automatically destroys authenticity, so there is no reason to base our logic on that. The use of the Victorian temperaments to introduce the concept is a concession to the 100 years of ET that the modern ears have had to work on. It is authentic that the key of E is more tempered than the key of C, so that is where the value lies. > The way I understand it is that composers >"back then" used the various changes in key color to build calm, tension, >excitement, whatever into their music by starting with a particular key >suitable to what they wanted to hear and modulating to and from various >keys to achieve that. Maybe this is too simplistic but that's where I am >at this point. I think that is a concise, accurate description of the way the inequality could have been used. >>Did they use it to construct these characteristics? Or was it the best they had? Do we know if they really would have liked to have heard their creations with equal tempering but that just wasn't available? << Jorgensen offers numerous writings of theorists and composers that strongly condemned the concept of ET in earlier times. However, the question doesn't have a definite answer. >>It seems to me that if the composer was truly inspired by the temperament, then temperaments would have been created for the sole purpose of bringing out these changes in tonality. When, as I understand it, the process seemed to evolve away from these harsh tonalities over a couple hundred years or so.<< As the piano developed, the tempering slowly moved towards a more homogenous sound. It seems that the change really began in the early 1800's, as the trade of tuner developed. If the best tuners at the Broadwood factory were still shaping their temperaments in 1885, and Braid-White and J.C. Fischer published all the necessary facts for ET in 1900, the move to strict ET may have been a relatively rapid one. >>Without hundreds of hours of practice on each temperament, wouldn't it be difficult to "be able to know what to check aurally to verify that one is actually getting the temperament and tuning correct"? << It is easy to check that the dissonance rises in a predictable fashion. The strict accuracy demanded to create ET is not necessary to meet the goals of well-temperament. The goal is a palette of predictable color, how big the steps are is where the refinement comes in. >>What's the pass/fail rate on the aural RPT Tuning Exam? How many examinees score 100 on the temperament section? ET is difficult enough to master for some techs. Now throw in a couple hundred or so more options.<< ET is the most difficult aural temperament there is, but it allows the greatest ease of expansion vian the octaves by using the multiple checks and rising beat rates when moving through the intervals chromatically. >>The university setting should be the place more suitable to exposing listeners to HTs. And this is why I'm not opposed to tuning HTs when requested. But on the other hand, CAUTs are generally so overloaded, at least I feel like I am, and have so many other concerns (such as budget, salary, outside work, etc.) that making time for adding all this to our repertoire seems a bit trivial, no?<< Risks and gains are proportional. >>In the university setting, the piano is not only a performance instrument, but also the basic tool of music education. So I could also see the inverse of the idea that college is a good place to introduce alternates: Mass confusion on the part of students as to what sounds in tune during a time when they're supposed to be developing something stable.<< Well, in ET, there is nothing in tune but the octaves, so I don't know that that is a great place to start. However, I would like to relate today's experience: A piano instructor at Vanderbilt had me come to her home to tune her 6' grand. She was complaing on the phone about it sounding worse and worse. I got there and found the ET I had tuned last year was almost completely intact. A few unisons here and there but otherwise, the piano was in tune. On further questioning, she said that somehow the piano sound she was getting was just irritating her. Her studio pianos were in a Broadwood's Best, so I suggested I also move her home piano out of ET. After the tuning, she sat down at the piano and within 10 seconds sat back and smiled, saying how much warmer and richer the sound was. This is the result of conditioning, I think. I told her that the tuning wasn't strong enough to optimize Mozart, and it would do a little damage to 20th century music, but all around, I thought it was the best compromise for what she was playing. She called about three hours later, telling me that she had just finished playing through an afternoon of Brahms and Rachmaninoff, and that her piano sounded better than she had ever heard it. She asked if the piano "needed" ET and I told her no. Is this something worth pursuing? I think it is, but if your particular situation differs, it may not be for you. The reason I suggest beginning modern pianists on Victorian level tuning is that you are undoing a lot of conditioning. Thirds over 17 cents will be disruptive to the uninitiated ear, but will provide beauty to those that have become sensitive to contrast, so I save them for later. There is no right or wrong about the use of temperaments, per se, but there are ways to introduce them that work and there are ways that don't. It is easy to increase the color for the pianist that becomes enthused about the tonal palette, but there is no way to retrieve the pianist that is shocked on first hearing. One way allows further developement, one slams the door. Of course, the whole question can be avoided by using ET, and if that appeals to a given tech, then that will be the preferred course. I do think it leaves a lot of exciting new ground unexplored, and I have come to enjoy seeing pianist become recharged and enthused about the sound of their instruments. I am not offended by those that think the subject is hogwash, techs don't pay me for my services. However, the loyalty of my customers insures my future, and I have been able to command the highest tuning price for my work in this state for the last 25 years. I am certainly not careless with my tuning's reputation and the use of temperaments has proven to be a great asset, not a liability. It may not be for everyone, nothing really is. However, after 12 years of dealing with the subject, I can say for certain that 95% of the resistance I have encountered has come not from musicians or music lovers, but from piano technicians. I think Jon was asking the same questions I have, Why? My "Temperaments for the 21st Century" class was specifically designed to provide interested and/or skeptical techs with a safe way to investigate the possiblities. Everybody is welcome, just come with open ears and minds or the time will be a waste for both of us. Thanks for the posting, Regards, Ed Foote
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