[CAUT] voicing a D

[Allen Wright]

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William,

Sorry, no offense intended. Any perceived sarcasm would be pointed=20
towards the pianist end of the equation under discussion.

Sincerely,

Allen Wright
On Wednesday, October 6, 2004, at 10:51  AM, William Schneider wrote:

> Allen
> =A0
> First, I don't understand the need for what appears to be a mildy=20
> sarcastic tone in discussing this sort of thing. I don't claim to have=20=

> developed a "very precse language". I used the phrase in the sense of=20=

> "not very precise", which simply suggests that there is room and the=20=

> possibility of more, though not absolute,=A0precision, even if used =
only=20
> between technicians. Its amazing to me, for instance that most=20
> pianists aren't aware that color changes depending on power.
> =A0
> Yes, I have found that if I demonstrate to pianists the various things=20=

> they can observe by a few simple tests (which take just a few=20
> minutes), they are appreciative, and even if they don't retain the=20
> information very long, they are more likely to feel comfortable in=20
> relying on my judgement. This is very conducive to the Ellis scenario,=20=

> which, by the way, I think is very sensible.
> =A0
> No pianist gets from me the more detailed voicing technique info that=20=

> my message contained. I was just passing on a few things to a=20
> technician who had asked for help. But if you work with a pianist very=20=

> long, as happens in a university setting in particular, and pass on a=20=

> few techical tidbits when the opportunity arises, eventually they=20
> become a little more savvy and understanding of the limitations we=20
> have to face, as well as the possibilities.
> =A0
> I agree that some pianists are tough nuts to crack, believing that=20
> they can teach others to perfom and interpret music, which they also=20=

> believe is the most mystical thing going, at the same time being=20
> skeptical that a techician could "teach" an instrument to sound=20
> better, let alone teach them anything. I think we live in the same=20
> universe.
> =A0
> Bill Schneider
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Allen Wright
> To: College and University Technicians
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] voicing a D
>
> William,
>
> So can we assume that you have in fact developed a "very precise=20
> language" describing tonal or voicing problems, and that you're able=20=

> to "teach pianists how to listen objectively"? My hat's off to you=20
> then, and I'd like to see the dictionary for it.
>
> We must live in parallel universes. In mine, more often than not,=20
> (with exceptions, of course), serious pianists are far too focused on=20=

> their own (yes, very subjective) worlds of music to have much energy=20=

> or interest to expend in the direction of a piano technician=20
> discussing anything with any technical subtlety. Their eyes glaze, and=20=

> attention wanders, long before much real understanding has occurred.
>
> My experience has been that the most that can be hoped for is=20
> something in between Jim Ellis's recommendation (make the piano the=20
> best you can and tell them that it's fixed) and your best-case=20
> scenario of mutual and satisfying edification and technical=20
> problem-solving, with the reality more often than not leaning towards=20=

> Jim's scenario.
>
> Your approach to voicing seems very solid, though. I'm sure you get=20
> the job done nicely.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Allen Wright
> On Tuesday, October 5, 2004, at 02:24 PM, William Schneider wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello Wim
>
> I am always surprised that piano technicians haven't developed a very=20=

> precise language for describing tonal, or voicing problems. In fact=20
> usually the most basic observations don't seem to have been made, or=20=

> at least are not mentioned. This is not a criticism of you in=20
> particular, but I do see lots of room for improvement in the=20
> profession. I also see it as our responsibility to help pianists=20
> describe what they're hearing, which means teaching them how to listen=20=

> objectively. It is perhaps the notion that timbre is subjective that=20=

> has prevented us from examining the many tonal attributes can be=20
> objectively observed. There will still be plenty of room for=20
> individual preferences when that has been done.
> =A0
> Looking at individual notes in the various ranges of the piano (when=20=

> in tune) one would do something like the following:
> =A0
> Check Hammer spacing, string level (phase problems), then
> =A0
> Check the strike point (ie. seeing that the hammer strikes the string=20=

> at the correct antinode). This is best done right after the hammers=20
> are shaped. This is done by sliding the action in and out a fraction=20=

> of an inch while repeating a loud blow. The right spot emphasizes the=20=

> fundamental lower consonant partials, so you have to listen "low' in=20=

> the sound. When you get some skill doing this, you'll hear tonal=20
> changes in the bass with movement of as little as 1/64th inch. The=20
> factory strike point isn't always right. No amount of needling or=20
> lacquer will get rid of dissonant partials or loss of power due to=20
> incorrect strike point.
> =A0
> Check the tone at ppp, and sugarcoat untill it's clean and even.
> =A0
> Next, compare power curve to color curve. Does the tone get brighter=20=

> the louder you play. (One of the areas for individual preference is=20
> here; how much brighter do you want it?) If the color curve ever=20
> reverses direction as you crescendo, you'll have two problems. First a=20=

> lack of sustain at that power and above, second the tone will appear=20=

> dull and sometimes coarse. What you are hearing is that the hammer is=20=

> softer underneath than above, which suggests the solution. The=20
> coarseness can be caused by either of two things, sometimes both: 1. a=20=

> hard spot high in the hammer, which can be fixed either by hardening=20=

> below, if you want a brighter piano, or softening the hard spot and=20
> doing nothing below, or both. The choice you make will give you a=20
> different piano from the others, but still a musical one. 2. The=20
> coarsness could also be the result of a new phase problem. Even though=20=

> the hammer is level with the strings, the boundaries between the=20
> softer and harder parts of the hammer underneath may not be level with=20=

> the strings. When you play at the relevant power level, this sounds=20
> just exactly like the hammers and strings were never mated to each=20
> other. Play at that power and check the tone of the left string only=20=

> against that of the right string only, then needle at the appropriate=20=

> depth on the brigter side, until both sides sound the same. This=20
> softening will gain you power because the strings will sound in phase.
> =A0
> In general, it's a correct relationship of hardness between the upper=20=

> part of the hammer and the lower that's the issue, not the absolute=20
> hardness levels. The hammer should get harder as you go deeper into=20
> it; that's what makes the power and color curves move in the same=20
> direction. If you want a piano with a lot of punch, the levels will be=20=

> harder overall. If you want a lush piano, make them softer. You can be=20=

> very creative in deciding how lush at ppp and how snorty at fff.
> =A0
> It sounds from your description like you may have a color curve=20
> reversal going on. A reasonable person could call the resulting sound=20=

> unfocused. Good luck.
> =A0
> Bill
>
>
> At 07:29 AM 10/1/2004, you wrote:
>
>
> I need some help from some of you who have lots of voicing experience.
> =A0
> The D in our concert hall has a problem, at least as perceived by one=20=

> of our piano faculty and a musicologist. They differ on where they=20
> hear the problem, but it seems to be the same sound they hear. They=20
> describe it as a wave length that is very wide, as opposed to a more=20=

> focused wave. It is not so much a twangy sound and it lack a certain=20=

> amount of depth. They are even leaning towards a soundboard problem.=20=

> The piano is only 2 years old.
> =A0
> I have lacquered and voiced the hammers last year, and this summer=20
> spent quite a bit of time leveling strings, making the sure the hammer=20=

> strike point is level, etc. All the usual fine point. But I want to=20
> see what I can do to get more "focus" out of the hammer.
> =A0
> Thanks
> =A0
> Wim
>

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