[CAUT] On the Steinway II and Liszt, historical pianos et. al. disccusion and links (long)

Richard Adkins RADKINS@coe.edu
Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:47:06 -0600


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I bought a CD some years ago..."Steinway Dynasty"

Jerome Lowenthal performs on 10 Steinways old and new...
from an 1857 square grand, the "Centenial" Concert Grand...(was that
1875?) a turn of the century upright, et.al... 10 different pianos
recorded in the same "space"....will give you an idea. 
I think it is out of print.
 
Also, I should say friend of mine has an 8'4" 1864 Steinway concert
grand (cross strung). In those days you
could still get a straight strung grand if you wanted one. It was
"refurbished" with
teflon action in the late 70s otherwise, the (shimmed) original
board/bridges are intact....new (heavy, modern) Steinway hammers... it
has a very, very heavy stiff action. Almost unplayable.
 
 The damper underlevers were updated
at that time as well w/teflon bushed underlevers. The new underlevers
"intruded"
so far forward that the key ends had to be notched out to eliminate
binding against
the keys...(boy did that feel weird!)...
 
Well, you have a lot of control when playing slow... :-))
 
The capstans, (a retrofit?) are not even front to back...many touch
wood on the back edge
of the wippen underfelt. These need to be moved/or the whippens need to
be moved back.
 
New brass action rails were installed, and could be moved out to
increase the spread, if I
thought it would help. If I ever get time away from pianos I'm making
money on, I'll look
into it.
 
It sounds pretty much like a modern Steinway,except it very woody
tonality but is very resonant I
have heard this sound in other old pianos besides Steinway.
 
This is hard to describe. The treble is sweet, and a bit weak due to
not being able to get good strike point
because the hammers are way too thick up there. They need to be shaved
a lot slimmer to work right,
but then, the tone will be quite different...more brilliant.
 
The original soundboard was shimmed and the original bridge is intact
with no cracks!
 
The original pinblock is tight as can be, but with 4/0 pins.  It did
not need to be plugged, or anything.
Now that's quality!
 
I holds tune extremely well, (but it is not in a practice
room,either).
 
It is agraffed all the way up to note 85. 
 
The piano has a pretty robust tone, with a big bass. 
 
The owner doesn't have the money to make those improvements. Personally
I think these "improvements" are questionable, and would recommend
refurbishing an antique action with original parts if possible.
 
 
The CD recording I mentioned above, has fine examples of the older
styles of Steinway
pianos. You can get it on Inter- Library Loan, though your local
college/univ library.
 
West Music here has a Centenial concert grand, for a lot of bucks it
can be yours...(like $150,000), cause
they claim it is one of  only 3 in the world. Believe me it is NOT a
revelation as far as 
historic performance/composers go. It sounds like a modern piano. There
are many
'innovations" obvious to the careful observor, but it is so close to
sounding like a 
modern grand I doubt very much you'll hear much difference between it,
and a.... Knabe....
 
Another CD you all might enjoy is "A Golden Treasury of Historic
Pianos" with instruments
from 1800 - 1845. The 1800 Rosenberger FortePiano is really beautiful. 
Here you can
hear the differences these early pianos could make. The pianos are
lightly strung, and
hammers are covered in buckskin.
 
Label= Amon Ra CD-SAR64 I might have gotten this from Berkshire
Records.
 
I think I have a recording of someone playing Liszt on Erard, (which
sounds like a clattery Everett
made in Canada, I think.)
 
Also available on CD is a recording on a restored 1880s Steinway D
@Bayreuth that Wagner owned and
probably also played by Liszt. Restored by Hamburg Steinway, it is
mostly modern in sound but
with that extra woody resonance, gone from modern musical instruments,
it seems. That, atleast
give some revelation as to a different sound aesthetic. By the 1880s,
the pianos were pretty much
sounding like they do today, except for maybe the Broadwoods or perhaps
Bosendorfer w/Viennese
Actions.
 
All these CDs can probably be gotten interlibrary loan, and dupped
w/your friendly computer/CD burner.
 
As far as Liszt goes, he owned at one time or another many brands of
pianos. He wrote
many endorsements on their worth, among them:
Chickering,Bosendorfer,Erard,Bechstein,Steinway, Ibach.
Perhaps the upright at Weimar.is an Ibach. There are several accounts
in various books of how
he taught and on what pianos he played. Fascinating reading.
 
His last pianos at Weimar were an upright, and a Bechstein concerrt
grand. He played the upright to demonstrate on, and his pupils performed
on the Bechstein.  There are some photos that
can be seen of him seated at the upright. Perhaps the Decca recordings
of Jorge Bolet on Bechstein
concert grands give you some idea, and then, perhaps not.
 
Please don't ask me to document everything...I'm already staying
overtime ....I'm not goint
to research all this again. It is in the books  on Liszt for you to
read.
 
Liszt at the upright:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/joel.puissant/perse/liszt.html
 
http://www.freud.org.uk/Theory5.html
 
http://www.mycomposers.co.uk/?page=composer&surname=Liszt
 
http://www.classical.net/lps/images/big/lon-liszt.jpg
 
the early square piano (can you imagine???!!!)...
http://www.arts.arizona.edu/mus330b/images/liszt-02.jpg
 
perhpas you'll want to look at:
 
1860 Steinway (like my friend's)...
 
http://www.liszt.it/steinwaynew.htm
 
http://www.periodpiano.com/Stock/default.htm
 
Liszt's Erard
http://www.metmuseum.org/news/newspressrelease.asp?PressReleaseId=%7B98ED1CDA-5015-11D5-93F5-00902786BF44%7D
 
sorry for thils windy post...
 
Richard
 
 

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