[CAUT] Baldwin SD (agraffe refurbishing)

[Mark Cramer]

Thanks Tim,

I've just re-skimmed the article, and will read when time permits.

My favourite string lifter is the type we make from old bass strings. The
hook is made from music wire, so it's thin enough to hook at the agraffe,
and draw back all the way to the tuning-pins, as you suggest. Good idea!

Though the agraffes in Paul's article are beautiful, I still haven't
convinced myself the actually profile the string contacts is significantly
different than we get from shoe-shining (upwards motion) with a bicycle
brake-cable or a cello string.

i.e.: we control the radius of the "U" shape by the angle we shoe-shine
with.

As a matter of fact, this is the identical motion we use to restore the
profile on a capo.

Now the results we get have absolutely no comparsion, cosmetically speaking,
Paul's work, is like art!

However, the string path itself, provinding the profile is right will have
any minute roughness  burnished out the first time we pull the string to
pitch. So the benefits of string contact area, ease of rendering, etc.
should be much the same.

Just MHO, and of you, Paul and myself, I'm the only lazy one who has yet to
prove my point by cutting the agraffe open.  :>)

Tim, I think it would be great nonetheless if you would consider sharing
your (and Charlie's)
method on the list.

We don't always get replies to our posts, but there are many techs in a
"read-only" capacity who would certainly enjoy and benefit from your
experience. And I would like to give your method an honest try as well.

best regards,
Mark Cramer
Brandon University

PS As for Ron Overs... well Ron I think you make all of us feel like total
slackers (I-beam ribs, making your own soundboard clamps, your own action,
and now re-plating agraffes!!!).

Would you mind easing up just a bit and let some of us catch up? ;>) Thanks
btw for hosting my clients on their recent trip to Sydney. They are real
piano enthusiasts and certainly enjoyed the visit.





-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org]On Behalf Of Tim
Coates
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:11 PM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Baldwin SD (agraffe refurbishing)


Mark,

If you haven't read Revenko-Jones' article you should re-read it.  He
doesn't suggest a "V".   It is the "U" that works.   Yes, a "V" will
turn into a "U" as soon as a string is put to it.  But a "U" doesn't
change as quickly.  I don't get any buzzes when I restring now.  And
without specially plated agraffes.  Read the article again.  Use an
"Optivisor" to really look into an agraffe.  You don't need to cut one
apart to see the inside of the hole (although we did when working out
the procedures).  I really believe that since the "U" is eventually the
shape, it is better to start there and not encounter the buzzes from
the small residue left from the string cutting into the "V".

The pulling of the string all the way from the agraffe back to the
stringing underfelt is what makes a difference.  That is also how I
lift strings on the speaking length of the string.  That's how I was
taught.   Start at the agraffe:  lift and slide away from the agraffe.
I don't just lift in front of the agraffe and call it good.  On all
other pianos If you look at the string coming out of the agraffe to the
stringing underfelt, it is sloping down.  I lift to make the string
slope up out of the agraffe and slope up to the stringing underfelt
almost with an "arch" to it.

I have not noticed it affecting (did I use the right word here? effect
or affect) the speaking length lifted area.

Tomorrow I will be in the shop all day so I can get the website address
for the polish used.  It is not the rouge most people use.  Also, you
need to find a good candy store to stock up on "Tootsie Pops" and
locate a grocery store that has "bamboo skewers".

Tim Coates


On Apr 6, 2006, at 1:46 PM, Mark Cramer wrote:

> Hi Tim,
>
> I believe I said "beware of... stringing felt," and I certainly don't
> "suggest" it. (but then my memory can be a fickle thing ;>)
>
> Lifting on the non-speaking side for voicing is an interesting thought
> though, and we know it works at the capo.
>
> Here's a question I think is worth keeping in mind:
>
> When we lift string on the speaking side, do we picture the string
> "bending"
> or "rocking?"
>
> It's likely a little bit of both, which makes your point a good one, as
> lifting the speaking length may have lowered the non-speaking length.
>
> As for refurbishing agraffes Tim, I agree.
>
> Another question comes to mind though:
>
> How long does that nice crisp "hour-glass" profile last? IOW, does the
> "V"
> shaped termination quickly become a "U" shape after a few tunings and
> some
> string-lifting?
>
> (recall the capo argument a few decades back; "shape it to a knife
> edge and
> let the string gently round it over")
>
> On that presumption, we've abandoned "recentering" to a crisp profile,
> in
> favour of the rounded profile we get from shoe-shining with abrasive
> cord.
>
> IOW, having yet to saw through an agraffe to prove this speculation,
> we feel
> the rounded internal profile (optimally creating a seat wider than the
> string diameter) is closer to the profile the string will impress into
> the
> brass over time. The thought being; this termination will last longer.
>
> Any comments?
>
> thanks,
> Mark Cramer,
> Brandon University
>
>
> Mark,
>
> You and I have talked about the problem with the agraffes before.  I
> have had limited success with lifting and thicker stringing felt as you
> suggest.  The buzzes still come back.  Although,  I have started using
> the lifting on the non speaking side of the agraffe as an important
> voicing tool.  The strings really come to life.  I have posted to this
> list before about lifting the non speaking segment but was totally
> ignored.
>
> It doesn't take a scientific mind to try it.  Just someone who knows
> not to pull the agraffe out of the plate.
>
> As I have stated several times the only sure fire method to get rid of
> the agraffe buzzes is to properly refurbish them.
>
> Jim Busby:  I have not ignored your post about the methods used to
> refurbish the agraffes.  I have not had time to put it together, as
> there are some items I need to clarify with my subcontracted labor (a
> PTG Associate).  At least at this point he is now willing to share his
> methods.
>
> Tim Coates
>