On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:25 PM, Fred Sturm wrote: > Richard and Paul, > Just to clarify, I am gathering that the problems you have been > describing are a result of a malfunctioning humidity control > system, within > the overall HVAC system. Is this correct? Not the result of an HVAC > system > pulling in wildly varying outdoor weather systems? It may be a little of both. > I wonder if anyone on this list has knowledge of the building > code specs > for modern HVACs. Presumably material like that is posted > somewhere, but > when I looked a couple years ago I got more confused than enlightened. > I believe there is a standard for period of time during which > the entire > air volume is to be replaced with "fresh" air. Also that it is > possible to > do some kind of filtration/treatment so that a fairly large > percentage of > air can be re-circulated. But that there is some base percentage of > outside > air that must be drawn in. The major factors paid attention to (by the > majority of engineers and administrators) are human health (disease > control > in public spaces) and energy efficiency. In regard to human health, I once had a conversation with one of the maintenance guys who asked if we could reduce the moisture requirement during the the winter. On some of the coldest days the water pumped into the building to keep the humidity at 40% made the filters damp. There was a concern about mold in the filters. I always wondered how effective the filters were because it was always difficult to keep dust off the pianos. Then I realized I probably was the biggest contributer to the problem in that my shop generated saw dust that was probably circulated around the building. I never purchased a saw dust control system/filter for my shop but probably should have. I looked at some filtering units that hang from the ceiling, but never got farther than looking. Does anyone have suggestions that Paul might consider both for the health of the building and for a healthy shop environment? Also some of the windows in the building frosted over and created damage to the drywall around the windows. The windows are single pane and the seals around the windows leak to the extent that icicles form outside. The windows need to be replaced. I still pushed to keep the moisture in the winter and was supported by the string faculty who worried about damage to their instruments. We never had a health problem in the building, but I was waiting for the day when there would be. I was also waiting for someone to object to the building damage that was going on with the high moisture during the winter. I kept my concerns to myself because the pianos stayed in tune. Perhaps I was worrying for nothing because no one in facilities management challenged our standards and they always fixed the drywall as needed, and took care of problems as best they could. One element of the system wasn't used as far as I know. In order to take moisture out of the building in the summer, there was a feature that supercooled the air to condense out the moisture and then the air would have to be heated to get a comfortable building temperature. This was just too inefficient and expensive, even though I was told the building was equipped to heat air in the summer. In short trying to achieve museum level humidity control in a music building is expensive and difficult, although it seems like some universities are having success with some new units. > That's my abbreviated notion. But > I'd love to have access to the real specs that the engineers are > going by. I > think we need to educate ourselves, so we can talk intelligently to > the > building folks, both in operations and design. I don't think the specs are generated only by the engineers. I think the engineers try to meet the requirements set by the occupants of the building. The occupants have to decide how important it is to control things absolutely and pay the price. Eighty percent efficiency is probably easy to achieve. Ninety plus efficiency has to be expensive. Richard West > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > > > On 11/28/06 12:31 PM, "rwest1 at unl.edu" <rwest1 at unl.edu> wrote: > >> Wim, >> >> The picture was sent up the food chain, but I don't know how far up >> it got. The problem was treated as an emergency, so that the >> maintenance people were right there to see what they could do. They >> followed up for several days after the problem was "fixed", so I >> couldn't complain about their service or the desire to get things >> fixed. The problem is beyond simple fixes, however. The HVAC has >> been causing problems in that room for a couple years now and >> evidently continues to need periodic attention. It's not a problem >> that occurs daily, at least not while I was there, but something gets >> screwed up every few months or so. >> >> Money does get spent. A year or two ago a wad was spent replacing >> the HVAC in one of the recital halls. The emergency there was pigeon >> poop and a pile of dead birds. You can imagine the stench that was >> starting to permeate the hall. >> >> There is a lot of deferred maintenance on campus. Nebraska voters >> want taxes cut, and spending reduced. As long as that mood exists, >> they'll have foggy rooms, and pay more in the long run for what >> should be routine maintenance. At least that's my take on the real >> cause of the problem. >> >> Having said all that, I hope you all don't get the impression that >> the University of NE is falling apart. There are a lot of good >> things happening there. With all the recent budget cutting around >> the nation, I think NE fared better than some universities. New >> buildings go up. Renovations of old buildings get done. It's just >> hard to know when the music school renovations will move to the top >> of the priority list. For Paul's sake, I hope it's sooner rather >> than later. >> >> Richard >> >> >> On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Willem Blees wrote: >> >>> Richard >>> >>> Was this picture shown to the higher ups at the university? I can't >>> imagine how a HVAC system that produced this kind of atmosphere >>> inside >>> a lecture hall could be considered a non emergency problem. The >>> effects of this kind of humidity on not only the instruments, but >>> the >>> building itself should warrant immediate action. It would seem to me >>> that putting a new HVAC system in this building would be much >>> cheaper >>> than replacing all the wood, electrical wiring, lights, etc, not to >>> mention the audio visual equipment, screens and instruments. >>> >>> Wim >>> >>> >>> Quoting "rwest1 at unl.edu" <rwest1 at unl.edu>: >>> >>>> The room Paul is talking about has had problems for years. The >>>> building simply needs a new HVAC system, but it's not high on the >>>> university priority list. The room in question has gotten worse in >>>> >>>> recent years. The complaints would go in and the facilities people >>>> would come over right away. They were cooperative, but the problem >>>> >>>> was bigger than a quick fix. The problem would be okay for awhile, >>>> >>>> but inevitably return. I took pictures to prove how bad it got. >>>> These were taken in May, just before I retired. It was so damp it >>>> was foggy and water was dripping from the ceiling. Not good for >>>> the >>>> >>>> pianos or for the electrical stuff either. >>>> >>>> Richard West >>>> >>>> •À¹•À¹On Nov 27, 2006, at 11:28 AM, Paul T Williams wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi list, >>>>> >>>>> We have a classroom/recital hall with a huge humidity problem. >>>>> Has >>>> >>>>> anyone else had this problem: >>>>> >>>>> The room seats about 200 and has a Steinway D from the late 70's >>>>> and a harpsichord. The room can change by 30-40% or more in a >>>>> day! Over the T-Day weekend I put in one of those small >>>>> humidistat from Pianotek and it showed a range of 24-80%!!! Not >>>>> only are my tunings worthless for recitals if I tune in the >>>>> morning >>>> >>>>> and the concert is in the evening (as some days, that is the only >>>> >>>>> time the room is available), but it has got to be wrecking havock >>>> >>>>> on the instruments. It doesn't have a piano life saver system in >>>>> it, and I wonder how much it would help with such wild swings. I >>>> >>>>> and all the faculty have complained about it (apparantly for years >>>> >>>>> prior to my getting here this year) and nothing gets done. >>>>> >>>>> Can I do more that just cover them and go ahead and put a DC >>>>> system >>>> >>>>> on it? They do have thick blanket style covers on them. >>>>> >>>>> Sweating to the oldies in Lincoln.... >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Willem Blees, RPT >>> Piano Tuner/Technician >>> School of Music >>> University of Alabama >>> Tuscaloosa, AL USA >> >> >> >
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