[CAUT] huge pitch raise question

[Alan McCoy]

Hi Michelle,

I'm lucky to be in a relatively dry climate, so rust is never an issue for
me, and I know it is for your area. I remember one of my first pitch raises
on a piano in Ohio where the rust from the rusted-in-place strings was
pinging all over the place as I raised the pitch. This piano taught me to
lower the string first before pulling it up. Not a fun lesson given the
several strings I had to replace.

So maybe rust is an issue for you.

Breaking in the "usual" places? That would be either the pin or the front
termination, right?

If, by fairly new you mean 10 years old, this is indeed an odd problem.
Actually it seems odd anyway with the strings not breaking on the initial
pass. I always bring the piano all the way up to pitch (and beyond) the
first pass. I use RCT in pitch raise mode. For all older pianos and for very
corroded string sets I raise the piano up to A-440 with no overpull. I know
it will take more passes, but it's safer this way. This is a judgment based
on lots of experience in my area, for which there is no substitute. For most
other pianos I set the bass max overpull to 5c and set the plain wire
overpull according to the age of the piano up to no more than 20c sharp for
newer pianos. I've learned though that you can't always predict how a
particular piano is going to respond just by looking at it. Some pianos that
were incredibly corroded and rusted, have come up to pitch with no broken
strings, while others without the obvious red flags... were not so lucky.
Probably string scale issues.

Speaking of scale issues, you might make note of the pianos that it does
happen on. Are they high tension scales? Is there a pattern to where in the
scale it happens? Bass? High treble?

Regarding the jerk or no-jerk method, there are lots of folks who swear by
impact tuning (with impact hammer) especially for pitch raises. I don't use
an impact hammer, but my style varies with the piano; sometimes I jerk it
up, sometimes I use a smoother technique. I just don't think that is the
problem in this case. I would suspect something else. Have you discussed it
with Don and others in your area as to their methods for pitch raising?

Alan

-- Alan McCoy, RPT
Eastern Washington University
amccoy at mail.ewu.edu
509-359-4627


> From: Michelle Stranges <stranges at oswego.edu>
> Reply-To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org>
> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 14:06:40 -0500
> To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org>
> Subject: [CAUT] huge pitch raise question
> 
> Hi folks-
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> :D
> 
> It happens more often than I'd like (and once is enough to be honest)
> and while I "feel"  that it's not my lovely hammer technique ;)  ,
> maybe it's something to do with some sort of "string thing"..
> 
> Has anyone else run across this?
> (Or maybe a PTG article I have overlooked?)
> 
> Upon visiting a fairly new piano and finding it dreadfully flat (50
> cents or more) , I carefully yet quickly, raise it up at least half
> of what it was.
> And I do have a (good?) habit of initially moving the pin in the flat
> direction before moving it sharp in order to loosen any friction from
> any rust or whatever that may have accumulated. Just a *quick* jerk
> to the left- nothing serious at all.
> 
> Now.. having raised the piano up (with a second pass to at least get
> it up to pitch) I start doing a "fine tuning".
> 
> it is either at this second pass or my fine tuning where strings
> start to break.
> In the usual places too- nothing out of the ordinary.
> 
> (Am I doing "too many tunings" (up to 3  times) to raise this
> completely up? Seems like that wouldn't be an issue,  especially if
> it's new(er)?
> Have I introduced some sort of unusual friction/heat or something??
> 
> 
> Now this doesn't happen all of the time, but I am acutely aware that
> it could and I wonder if there's something in my technique or my
> sequence of pitch raising that makes these newer strings break. (I
> could understand some strings breaking if the piano was older..)
> 
> I know tuners who on the first go, bring the whole piano up tp pitch
> but I've always been a little leary of that.
> I'm wondering if they also have strings break on their second pass/
> fine tuning..
> 
> I fully realize that they (the strings) are now at different spots on
> all of the contact and termination points so I would assume that
> would add to the puzzle.
> And I'd like to also add that it seems that the tork alone on this
> 1/2 way-to-pitch, pitch raised piano feels MUCH higher than it did
> before (and more than "normal") and I chalk that up to the higher
> tension I have just introduced.
> 
> I am a jerk tuner.
> 
> (Stop laughing  :)
> 
> I would be VERY interested in viewing the number of passes you folks
> do to bring a  piano up to pitch and whether or not you've
> experienced this-especially on ones that aren't so old.
> 
> Hope this post reads OK- and I look forward to your responses!
> 
> :)
> Michelle
> 
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