[CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?

[Richard Brekne]

I have to take issue with the two posts that contain the below quotes 
and try and get the discussion back on a reasonable track.

    "The world is full of individuals who hide behind degrees or
    "factory training" and who, much as you may not like to admit,
    consider their training to be the last word.  Not every mentor knows
    what he or she is talking about and the trade is replete with
    certain mythologies often perpetuated by the very individuals who
    are supposed to know better and if not, at least be willing to ask
    the questions."

As we have all said many many times. What Israel points out is that 
there are just as many so called self taughts who become every bit as 
guilty if not more so of exactly the same kind of arrogance or worse.  
To put it bluntly... I have very seldom seen the kind of stuff the 
<<establishment>> is being accused of  performed more obviously or with 
such open hostility then I see it here by the current wave makers.

    "Yes, and that schooling doesn't guarantee education any more  than
    lack of schooling precludes it. Those who are capable of and
    interested in learning will find a way."

But this is just plain absurd.  Read these words twice and think over 
what is being said.. put  in perspective with all else that has been 
said.  The fact of the matter is, and this is a plain bold faced fact, 
lack of formal education is about as close to a guarantee of ignorance 
as it gets. There is no point is holding the exception to this rule up 
and attempt to turn the world upside down and declare that the educated 
are the true dummies of the world.  Several posts have attempted on this 
thread to discount education one way or the other.  Just about 
everything from declaring Beethoven never had any teaching to outright 
contempt for those whose educational paths have taken them through the 
established roads to knowledge.  The irony of it all is that the worst 
accusations leveled come from the most guilty party I have ever met. 

But back to the real topic:

Once again... if the collective we of  CAUT wants to maintain the status 
quo then fine.  But then one also has to accept the whole of the status 
quo... and we all know what the <<quo>> of the piano guy/gal is in the 
world.  If on the other hand CAUT wants to change this... then it has to 
abide by the rules the world at large operates on. Its not a perfect 
world as has been painfully overstated several times.  But there it is.  
In the end a rather simple choice after all. The difficult part is 
getting past all the static and arriving at a reasonable set of criteria 
for establishing a certifications.

Richard West came up with a nice alternative... a series of seminar like 
shorter term educational programs each with its own certificate of 
completion.  A combination of these could be used to arrive at a overall 
certification for a person with basic skills needed to head up a 
university piano technology department and at the same time be used to 
build respect among the university community for what we do and what are 
value really is. This is what we should focus on.

Cheers
RicB