The other problem is the newer technician with skills but no "body of work". I like the idea of CAUT certification classes that could be held at PTG Conventions. David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org> Received: 11/12/2007 4:48:14 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? >I did read that. I think, however, that those constraints are not always >apparent and in certain situations you might be setting yourself up for a >misjudgment of your abilities. Often, the faculty in such an institution >doesn't even understand the constraints. I don't think I'd want to go that >route. I can think of several situations institutional and otherwise where >I wouldn't want to rely on those judging my work to glean the constraints >under which I was operating. Overall, if a certificate program were to be >instituted, I think a judgment made on more neutral ground via completion of >a class or program or testing, perhaps, would reduce the chances of that >type of misjudgment. >David Love >davidlovepianos at comcast.net >www.davidlovepianos.com >-----Original Message----- >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alan >McCoy >Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:52 PM >To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> >Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? >Yes David, I understand this. Hence my statement "...to see the context >within which they work..." >By context I mean, among other things, the constraints the technician is >operating within. >Alan >> From: David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> >> Reply-To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" ><caut at ptg.org> >> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:37:17 -0800 >> To: 'College and University Technicians' <caut at ptg.org> >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? >> >> Unfortunately, many CAUT techs are caught between what they feel needs to >be >> done (ideal outcomes) and what the university is willing or able to pay >for. >> Those two things are often miles apart and assessing the tech in that >> context may not be quite fair. >> >> David Love >> davidlovepianos at comcast.net >> www.davidlovepianos.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alan >> McCoy >> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:40 PM >> To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? >> >> I haven't been following this thread closely at all, except to see that it >> has generated a lot of heat and comment. >> >> FWIW, I think the best, though certainly not the cheapest nor the most >> practical, way to measure or evaluate a CAUT for a credential is an >on-site >> "inspection" like a NASM visit. What better way to evaluate someone than >to >> see, feel and hear their body of work? And to see the context within which >> they work - the budget, the number and quality of instruments, the tools >and >> workspace, the details of the contract or employment they work under. >> >> Neither testing nor class attendance come close as evaluative tools. >> >> My 2c worth. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> >>> From: Fred S Sturm <fssturm at unm.edu> >>> Reply-To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" >> <caut at ptg.org> >>> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:51:27 -0700 >>> To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org> >>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? >>> >>> On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 06:22:03 -0600 >>> Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net> wrote: >>>> The notion that nothing can be >>>> learned without someone teaching it to you is nonsense. >>>> Ron N >>> >>> Absolutely correct. In fact, one can say that real >>> learning only happens when the person learning takes >>> responsibility. And much if not most of what we learn is >>> done on our own without direction from anyone else (we >>> might have been given initial direction, but then we work >>> it out for ourselves, in our own way. In a music lesson, >>> we are given direction, then expected to "practice, >>> practice" - which is where we really learn it. If we learn >>> it). The best "teachers" are those who inspire their >>> learners to >>> become self-motivated learners. The best learners are >>> those who question what their "teachers" say, and try to >>> come to their own understanding. >>> Where does this thread have a practical application >>> to the issue at hand, the potential creation of a caut >>> credential? One way has to do with how piano technicians >>> receive their training. A small proportion attend a >>> formal, full-time training program like North Bennett. >>> Most of us "pick up some here, some there," relying on >>> formal or informal mentorships, factory-run intensive >>> programs (usually week long), classes at regional or >>> national institutes, reading the PTJ, books, listservs, >>> etc. IOW, it is very difficult to measure what training >>> most of us have had. Most of us probably consider >>> ourselves "largely self-taught," however accurate or >>> inaccurate that statement is on close examination. >>> If this credential is to become a reality, we need to >>> measure skill and knowledge in some way, rather than >>> focusing on training. To get a handle on what we might >>> want to measure, we can imagine an average piano >>> technician with a background mostly in the area of home >>> service, as in semi-regular tuning, a bit of regulation, >>> necessary repairs for the most part. This, let us say, >>> represents the level of skill and knowledge tested for in >>> the RPT exams (and let's not get bogged down in examining >>> those exams in detail. Too much of a distraction from the >>> task at hand). Throw that person into a caut context. What >>> additional chops and knowledge are needed? >>> There are certainly some practical, mechanical >>> skills and levels of skill that need to be addressed. >>> Tuning well enough to get a check for a home tuning is >>> different from tuning well enough for a professional >>> musician and musical audience, and this is particularly >>> noticeable in the concert situation. Especially in the >>> clarity and stability of unisons. Regulating well enough >>> to make the instrument work for most people is different >>> from the precision and "subtlety" needed in the >>> professional context. Not to mention voicing. There are a >>> lot of procedures that are far more common in a caut >>> context than in most others, like keybushing, tail >>> scuffing, knuckle brushing, centerpinning to fine >>> tolerances. >>> And then there are organizational skills: "You have >>> 500 hours per year to take care of 50 pianos. Go do it." >>> Hmmm, how to get started? How to know if 10 hours per >>> piano per year is enough? Where to begin? >>> It would be lovely to have an actual educational >>> program for cauts, full time for at least a few months. We >>> are more likely to have to rely on classes at national >>> institutes (moving out as possible to regionals), and >>> factory programs like the one Steinway does at Oberlin, >>> for the foreseeable future. I can certainly see the value >>> in working towards regular caut intensive programs, where >>> we bring cauts to various universities across the country >>> from year to year to do a few days of hands on. It would >>> take a lot of work to organize and prepare, and costs >>> would certainly be an issue. I don't think it would be >>> like Ed Foote's assessment of the financial rewards of >>> having attended North Bennett: a clear financial plus for >>> the attendee. >>> In many ways, what we have before us is "an >>> impossible task." Whatever we come up with will not be >>> "ideal." Still, I firmly believe that we can come up with >>> something meaningful and useful. >>> Regards, >>> Fred Sturm >>> University of New Mexico >> >> >> >>
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