[CAUT] electronic tuning device preference?

[Ed Sutton]

If anyone is interested in working, it would be interesting to see how the 
various machines score one another.
Use a standard calculated tuning by ETD#1 as a master tuning to score 
tunings by ETDs#2,3 and 4, then use #2's standard tuning to score #1,3 and 
4, etc.  If a significant disagreement occurs between the machines, then a 
human jury should rule (blind) as to whether either was better. I suppose 
the test should be repeated using several brands of pianos, in case one 
machine does better by certain brands.
Ed Sutton


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Sturm" <fssturm at unm.edu>
To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] electronic tuning device preference?


> On Mar 14, 2008, at 8:44 AM, Keith Kopp wrote:
>
>> Fred,
>>
>> While all this is good it goes miles above what my intentions were.  The 
>> first was a simple comparison to show that the major differences  between 
>> the different devises were not as much as how good they are  but what 
>> features you want. All four will give basically good  results. Then I 
>> wanted to give some reasons why the technicians  chose the specific units 
>> they use. The several comments that have  been made the last few days 
>> have given additional insight on why  different technicians make the 
>> choices they do.
>>
>> My ETD follow-up comment were again to be a simple answer to the 
>> proposed question: If they all score so high, while should I learn  to 
>> tune by ear and why can't I just take the test with a machine?  Again, 
>> the recent posts have taken this way beyond my simplistic  answer of: You 
>> need to learn aural tuning skills.
>>
>> It appears I wrote a simple sentence or two and now I have enough 
>> material to write a novel. Isn't it grand? I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Keith
>
> Hi Keith,
> I don't want to be obnoxious and argumentative, but the way I see it, 
> your example actually doesn't do a very good job of explaining why 
> someone who tunes with ETD should learn aural skills (at least IMO).  It 
> focuses on the ability to create a temperament by aural means (the 
> "errors" of the ETD generated tuning are errors of temperament). I 
> believe the main reason we all need good aural skills (even if we tune 
> using an ETD) is to make good judgments about stretch, about 8ves,  double 
> 8ves, triple 8ves, 12ths and 19ths, and how to use them to  create a 
> balanced tuning appropriate to the instrument (and to taste).  Along with 
> acuity in judging unisons. I think there is far too much  emphasis in PTG 
> on learning to execute a temperament sequence  successfully by ear, and 
> not nearly enough on how to "tune a whole  instrument."
> As for the question "Why can't I just take the test with a machine?"  I 
> certainly don't want to go there in a discussion on this list. But  from 
> an educational point of view, I think we should focus much more  on 
> unisons and large intervals, and much less on aural temperament  sequence. 
> Setting aside the "practical" purpose of "passing the RPT  test," I think 
> it is useful and informative to do at least some work  on aural 
> temperament sequences, to get a better handle on the various 
> relationships involved in dividing the octave. But I don't know that 
> honing those skills serves much purpose, other than to develop an 
> appreciation of the difficulty involved in achieving a consistently  high 
> level of accuracy. The ETD does the job of creating a temperament  quite 
> well.
> But we do need our ears and brains to make sure the ETD generated  tuning 
> is appropriate in its stretch, and to flag the times when  something goes 
> quite considerably wrong - as it does more frequently  than one would 
> like. Usually it is a matter of bad data, probably due  to factors like 
> soundboard resonance, standing waves and the like.  (The machines measure 
> accurately, but pianos produce  "uncharacteristic" partial pitches in 
> unpredictable ways). Whatever  the cause, sometimes a reading taken very 
> carefully will result in a  tuning chart that is abominable for the given 
> instrument, and one  needs to be on one's toes to flag those times 
> (doesn't affect the  temperament, but it sure does affect the octaves and 
> overall stretch).  That, IMO, is one of the main reasons why we need aural 
> skills (and  need to use our brains: the numbers will usually tell us that 
> something untoward has happened, and that we should investigate  further).
>
> Regards,
> Fred Sturm
> University of New Mexico
> fssturm at unm.edu
>
>