Hi Dale, THink I can glue some to the top of my car to help in the summer? <G> Which one did you use, the Low E? A whole roll would cover the bottoms of a whole lot of pianos. But I might think about my corrugated roof shop building. I'm not clear how it is installed on a metal building. Does it go inside, reflective surface facing out? Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico fssturm at unm.edu On Mar 27, 2008, at 8:27 AM, Ward & Probst, Inc wrote: > Fred, > > You might try a piece of this http://www.metalmarts.com/insulation.php > stapled to the bottom board. I insulated our moving trailer and a > metal shop > building with the silver/silver combination and it works well at > reflecting > radiant heat. > > DP > Dale E. Probst, RPT > Ward & Probst, Inc. > Wichita Falls, TX > mailto:dale at wardprobst.com > www.wardprobst.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of Fred > Sturm > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:00 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [CAUT] Full Cover w/ DC > > > A couple thoughts beyond what I posted earlier. Heat is conveyed > (the > physicist types tell us) in three ways: radiant, conduction (might be > the wrong term) and convection. With forced air heat, we are mostly > dealing with convection, and the variant is whether and how much the > air is moving. This affects how much the object (piano) is heated or > cooled by the air that is a different temperature. And mostly we don't > worry too much about it, and worry more about how dry the air is, and > the movement of water to and from the wood of the piano. > But if there is a heat source like a radiant heated floor, or an old > > fashioned radiator, or baseboard heat (and any number of other > possibilities), there is the possibility that the "body and material > of the piano" become heated more than the ambient air. I think this > happens with my example of the console on a brick, radiant heated > floor. I think it also happens with a couple of grands I service that > are next to baseboard heat (the type that has hot water flowing > through long, low profile radiators). I have one with a full system > and undercover, another with a double tank. Both have horrible tuning > instability. It is better than it was without the systems, but as bad > as what I see in "normal" houses without a system. (And, yes, I have > discussed placement of the pianos with the customers, and, frankly, > there is just no good option). > I think that this proximity to heat source causes the whole > structure > of the piano to become a fair amount hotter than the air, and so the > moisture just leaves it much faster than the system can replenish: > there is an active "moisture subtraction" system in effect, with more > power than the active moisture addition system. I'm thinking I need to > come up with some kind of baffle/insulator system for these pianos. > Problem is, it has to look acceptable (I'm real good at the kind of > thing that doesn't have to look so good <G>). I'm thinking in terms of > "space blanket" type design, with metal foil and insulating layers > sandwiched together. But so far it is just idle thinking while tuning > those pianos. > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > fssturm at unm.edu > > > > On Mar 26, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Fred Sturm wrote: > >> I think radiant heating is a real challenge. I have a console on a >> brick, radiant heated floor, that has crazy swings in spite of well- >> serviced dampchaser system and back cover. (Over time, I up-graded >> to DRY humidistat, then back cover. Each step helped some, but not >> as much as expected. Still unacceptable). >> I think the addition of heat by conduction, due to the piano being >> in contact with the hot floor, is a big part of this. I have been >> puzzling about how to deal with it. My best guess so far is some >> kind of insulation - don't know how much good caster cups might do, >> whether to do some kind of blanket under the bottom board. >> Definitely an issue that needs to be examined and solutions >> proposed and experimented with. I wonder whether the contact of the >> grand's legs with the floor isn't part of the problem, in addition >> to what is radiated up from the floor. Rubber casters might help - >> probably not, but perhaps worth a try as part of a solution. I'm >> thinking about the conduction part of the equation, which might or >> might not be significant in this case. >> Regards, >> Fred Sturm >> University of New Mexico >> fssturm at unm.edu >> >> >> >> On Mar 26, 2008, at 7:46 AM, Joel A. Jones wrote: >> >>> Jon, >>> >>> I have a similar situation in that the heat is radiant in the >>> floor. >>> The church added a long piece which wraps under the piano, >>> thus keeping the temp and humidity even inside the piano. >>> >>> With your floor length cover I would explore adding a few straps >>> with velcro to pull the extra length of cover underneath the >>> piano. My guess is that this would even out the temp and >>> humidity and eliminate the sauna effect you are experiencing >>> now. >>> >>> Let us know how you handle this situation. I am very >>> interested on what happens. >>> >>> Joe >>> Joel Jones, RPT >>> Madison, WIl >>> On Mar 26, 2008, at 7:51 AM, Jon Page wrote: >>> >>>> I recently took over the tuning for a church with a 7' Imp. >>>> Bosendorfer. >>>> >>>> On my first visit the music director asked me to remove the tank. >>>> I lifted a section of the full-length cover and got under the >>>> piano; >>>> it was quite warm and humid, too much. >>>> >>>> This is an old church with wooden floors with the parish hall >>>> below. >>>> The heat radiated up through the floor and was trapped within the >>>> cover causing the piano to become even warmer. With the humidifier >>>> running it was like a sauna or greenhouse (to a degree). >>>> >>>> Of course, as I was tuning, the piano drifted since it is now being >>>> acclimated to the room. That was fun. >>>> >>>> I recommended that they ditch the full length cover and supplement >>>> the rods with a string cover. This way the string cover can remain >>>> on >>>> during services and removed for performances if needed. I don't >>>> think >>>> they need the H20 since there's no excessive heat or cold in the >>>> winter >>>> and no one willing to monitor it. >>>> >>>> I suggested they place a hygrometer inside to monitor the piano >>>> when >>>> first opened and after service and to ascertain the effect of the >>>> full cover >>>> and whether they really needed the H20 in the winter. >>>> They have yet to do that. >>>> >>>> The music committee asked the dealer about the full cover and DC >>>> and the dealer naturally stuck by their sale. I was asked by the >>>> music >>>> director to give my suggestion at a committee meeting next week. >>>> >>>> So my question is, with the heat radiating upwards from the hall >>>> below >>>> is a full cover ideal. I believe a string cover and heat rods are >>>> sufficient. >>>> I can see where a full-length cover in an auditorium can be useful >>>> but in this case I think it is detrimental. >>>> >>>> They don't really need the bulky, protective cover because there >>>> is no traffic around the piano. A lighter cover would do if >>>> desired. >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Jon Page >>>> >>> >> > >
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