I have taken the first Comprehensive class at S&S in Queens, NY, and according to them, one can call oneself "Steinway factory trained", but that there has never been such a thing as a "certified Steinway technician". The latter is a long lived myth. --- On Tue, 5/6/08, caut-request at ptg.org <caut-request at ptg.org> wrote: > From: caut-request at ptg.org <caut-request at ptg.org> > Subject: caut Digest, Vol 1110, Issue 16 > To: caut at ptg.org > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 9:27 AM > Send caut mailing list submissions to > caut at ptg.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > caut-request at ptg.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > caut-owner at ptg.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of caut digest..."Today's > Topics: > > 1. Re: Steinway school info (Norman Cantrell) > 2. Steinway school info (Steinway tech...) (Richard > Brekne) > 3. Steinway school info (Richard Brekne) > 4. Steinway school info (Richard Brekne) > 5. Re: Steinway school info (Steinway tech...) (Paul T > Williams) > 6. Re: Steinway school info (Steinway tech...) (Jim > Busby) > 7. New Renner underlever system (Jim Busby)David et al > > It would be a surprise to have Oklahoma City University > at the preferred staffing level. I would know as I am one > of the three contract techs who service the pianos. I > usually come in twice a year, before the semester starts > and assist in the tuning and prep of the 130 instruments > there. One other tech also is utilized in this manner and > the third is the main go to guy for all the concerts, > recitals, etc. The school built a new state of the art > facility which opened two years ago. At that time all the > inventory was put into place. Some of it had been > purchased about 5 or 6 years ago and was in storage until > the building was built. Needless to say the first semester > we had a lot of pitch adjustment on our hands. The pianos > are new enough that major rebuilding work is not yet > needed. That being said after two years they are needing > more attention in the high demand areas. > > The entire building has humidity control and each studio, > performance hall, and even the practice rooms are completely > soundproof. It is an amazing place to work in that regard. > I can literally tune in a practice room next to one of the > other techs and not hear anything but myself. There was a > lot of planning and expense in the design. I am told that > each practice room cost $100,000 to build before the piano > was put in. Each practice room has its own air handler to > eliminate sound bleed over. Because of the completeness of > the job each practice room also has to have its own fire > alarm. You literally couldn't hear one out in the > hallway. > > All was great until last fall when the humidity control > went offline. We finally got it fixed after a lot of wheel > squeaking and things settled down. I will be going in next > week to help prepare all the grands for the state music > teachers student contest. In this case the facility far > outshines the pianos. It makes the 90 mile commute worth > it. > > Norman Cantrell > > "Porritt, David" <dporritt at mail.smu.edu> > wrote: > Alan: > > I had tried to get a document like the one you sent a year > or more ago > and they didn't seem to have one. I talked to Kent Webb > and Sally > Kavaleski (I know I'm murdering the spelling of her > name - Sorry) and > they couldn't seem to find a document with those > details. The one you > send was dated January 2008 so it could be a new one. > > On item #3 I asked if there actually were a school that had > that > technician ratio and they thought that Oklahoma City > University had > achieved that benchmark. None others were mentioned. > > I didn't read in #8 that all pianos had to be rebuilt > in NY. Was that > something that they said in the meeting you attended? I had > asked that > specifically when I talked to them and was told that this > would be their > preference. Perhaps they have now made this a requirement. > > Thanks for sending this! > > dave > > > David M. Porritt, RPT > dporritt at smu.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of > Alan McCoy > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:00 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway school info > > I just went to a presentation by S&S about the program. > Attached is a > document from that presentation that defines or stipulates > what it means > to be an All-Steinway school. > > Of particular interest is #3. BTW, if you haven't read > the S&S > equivalent of the CAUT Guidelines, it is worth looking > over. The version > I have was written by Gary Green in 2005. Its > recommendations for number > of technicians (one full-time technician per 40 S&S, or > one full-time > tech per 60 > Boston/Essex) and parts inventory look to be more demanding > than the > CAUT Guidelines. They apparently have a spreadsheet for > this purpose. No > doubt this hooks into their initial inventory of your > instruments. > > Another consideration is #8 wherein any rebuilding will be > done at the > S&S restoration center in NY. This effectively removes > any > decision-making about rebuilding from you, other than > choosing which > piano is up for rebuilding. > > By becoming an All-Steinway School (I was about to use an > acronym but > decided against it. :-] ) you are accepting the brand, > being branded as > it were, and must live up to their expectations. They want > to protect > their name, and you, as an All-Steinway School, are > representing their > name, same as a dealer. > > It's a choice. It may be a good one for the school and > students. But it > is not without its trade-offs. > > FWIW, > > Alan > > > -- Alan McCoy, RPT > Eastern Washington University > amccoy at mail.ewu.edu > 509-359-4627 > 509-999-9512 > > > > From: Fred Sturm > > Reply-To: "College and University Technicians > " > > > > Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 08:13:42 -0600 > > To: "College and University Technicians " > > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway school info > > > > Hi Chris, > > You might be surprised about raising money. A case in > point from UNM: > > a guy who had been a violin student at UNM but changed > to math. Became > > > a math teacher at a university (some other state), but > kept up his > > interest in music, performing as section violinist in > regional > > orchestras and doing chamber music. He got interested > in collecting > > instruments, and ended up with a "matching" > string quartet. In his > > 80s, he decided to donate them, and approached our > music department, > > because of fond feelings about his violin prof. We had > been in the > > process of dedicating our rehearsal hall to the memory > of this prof, > > so maybe he heard about that, and it got him thinking. > > So for the last ten years, we have had a graduate > string quartet (they > > > get to use the instruments, and get a scholarship), > underwritten by > > him, and he is (now in his 90s) finishing paperwork to > endow $500,000 > > in scholarships for string students. All from a very > unassuming guy > > who doesn't have children and wants to do > something meaningful with > > what is probably the accumulation of TIAA/CREF > retirement account > > money. > > The point being that you don't have to have a BIll > Gates among your > > alums to raise substantial sums of money. But it does > take some effort > > > and communication. > > Regards, > > Fred Sturm > > University of New Mexico > > fssturm at unm.edu > > > > > > > > On May 2, 2008, at 1:55 PM, Christopher Purdy wrote: > > > >> Thanks to everyone that has responded to my > questions, on list and > >> off. I have received a lot of great insight and > ideas. > >> Realistically, I don't see how this is ever > going to happen here. > >> We would basically have to buy some 100 new > Steinways and I just > >> don't see us raising 3-4 million dollars. > However, I have really > >> been enlightened with ideas of using this to get > the ball rolling and > > >> start discussion. Plus, the new director knows the > program and is > >> very interested in pursuing it. If he's got > the experience and the > >> energy, I'd love to see where it takes us. > >> > >> Thanks again to everyone. I've saved all the > responses and I will > >> really be able to use the info you provided. > >> > >> Chris > >Hi Jim > > You touch on one of the more unfortunate aspects of our > trade.... how to > identify who is qualified or not to adequately serve as > responsible tech > for a large pool of valuable inventory. At least Steinway > is making an > attempt... and it is in their interests of course to see > that these > instruments are taken care of reasonably well. The PTG > struggles with > the same kind of problem really in its testing for RPTs... > the whole > certification program. > > My experience with the Steinway seminars / masterclasses... > whatever you > choose to call them is that the initial ones are as much > for Steinway to > get an idea of the techs abilities as it is too teach them > anything. > People who show they know a good deal about what they are > doing get > invited back for more, those who dont usually dont get > invited back. > Same goes for the Yamaha technical schools in Hamatsu. They > go so far as > to tell you at the end of your stay whether or not you will > be invited > back for the next level. > > To what any personal politics get involved in such > issues.... well IME > life is far more full of that kind of stuff then it should > be... in > every human endeavour. I cant see any real difference in > our industry > relative to others. There will always be a certain degree > of <<its not > what you know but who you know>>. Sucks... but .... > well... evidently > thats part of humanity too. > > Cheers > RicB > > > Alan, List, > > At "Snow College", an All Steinway School in > Utah, they thought my > bid for servicing was too high, so they were going to > get a local > hack. (My opinion) I told the Steinway dealer and he > called NY. > Steinway then threatened to revoke the A.S. School > status and void > all the warrantees unless a suitable "Steinway > Technician" did the > work. (At least that's what I was told.) I got the > job at the price > I asked. > > What is a "Steinway Technician"? It seems > it's whoever the > dealership and/or Steinway say it is. (I'm still > not really sure.) > At the time I had two of the Steinway Academy classes > so they chose > me over the other guy. > > What I was told later is that a technician should at > least have the > 1st "Comprehensive Class" in New York or > Oberlin, along with the OK > of the instructor and the S&S dealer. > > Jim BusbyAt Oberlin... they made no bones about using > outside restorers when they > wanted too. These schools have some power too you know. An > all Steinway > School has usually a fairly large inventory representing a > very large > source of income for S&S. In the end, Steinway has to > from a strategic > point of view have a very good reason for pulling all > Steinway School > certification. There is always a degree of give and take. > > Cheers > RicB > > > Hey Fred, > > You may be right about the interpretation. However, in > the S&S > Guidelines > doc, page 3 there is a paragraph that states that > "...piano restoration > beyond re-stringing should be contracted with S&S > Restoration > Center..." "It > will also insure Steinway authenticity." > > Of course I don't know how rigid they are with > this, but the > impression I > get is that to protect their brand, they would want a > lot of input > in any > decision of rebuilding. > > I dunno how it actually works in reality. > > AlanHi Alan > > I dont see any recommendation for amount of techs per 40 > pianos under > point three in the pdf file attached... Something I am > missing ? > > RicB > > > > I just went to a presentation by S&S about the > program. Attached is a > document from that presentation that defines or > stipulates what it > means to > be an All-Steinway school. > > Of particular interest is #3. BTW, if you haven't > read the S&S > equivalent of > the CAUT Guidelines, it is worth looking over. The > version I have was > written by Gary Green in 2005. Its recommendations for > number of > technicians > (one full-time technician per 40 S&S, or one > full-time tech per 60 > Boston/Essex) and parts inventory look to be more > demanding than the > CAUT > Guidelines. They apparently have a spreadsheet for this > purpose. No > doubt > this hooks into their initial inventory of your > instruments. > > Another consideration is #8 wherein any rebuilding will > be done at > the S&S > restoration center in NY. This effectively removes any > decision-making about > rebuilding from you, other than choosing which piano is > up for > rebuilding. > > By becoming an All-Steinway School (I was about to use > an acronym but > decided against it. :-] ) you are accepting the brand, > being branded > as it > were, and must live up to their expectations. They want > to protect their > name, and you, as an All-Steinway School, are > representing their > name, same > as a dealer. > > It's a choice. It may be a good one for the school > and students. But > it is > not without its trade-offs. > > FWIW, > > AlanJim, > > This is good info as well. If I ever get "brave" > enough to approach our > school for such an investment, at least I might be > qualified having been > given the honor to attend this summer's seminar in > Oberlin. We are about > 50% Steinway, although many would be in need of total > rebuilding IMHO. I > wonder where S&S would draw the line on current > condition of older > Sty's.....Have you gone through all the > "steps" to be a certified S&S > tech? Does Steinway actually test you and put you on a > list of some sort? > > On the other hand, having other good grands can be a good > thing. Our > M&H's and Yamahas are nice pianos and give > different colors to the music > dept. > > BTW - nice story in the Journal. It gave me the willies. > I would have > run for the door too! > > Paul T. Williams RPT > > > > > Jim Busby <jim_busby at byu.edu> > Sent by: caut-bounces at ptg.org > 05/05/2008 03:57 PM > Please respond to > College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > To > College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > cc > > Subject > Re: [CAUT] Steinway school info (Steinway tech...) > > > > > > > Alan, List, > > At "Snow College", an All Steinway School in > Utah, they thought my bid for > servicing was too high, so they were going to get a local > hack. (My > opinion) I told the Steinway dealer and he called NY. > Steinway then > threatened to revoke the A.S. School status and void all > the warrantees > unless a suitable "Steinway Technician" did the > work. (At least that's > what I was told.) I got the job at the price I asked. > > What is a "Steinway Technician"? It seems > it's whoever the dealership > and/or Steinway say it is. (I'm still not really sure.) > At the time I had > two of the Steinway Academy classes so they chose me over > the other guy. > > What I was told later is that a technician should at least > have the 1st > "Comprehensive Class" in New York or Oberlin, > along with the OK of the > instructor and the S&S dealer. > > Jim BusbyPaul, > > There really is no "test" or certification to > become a "Steinway Tech". In fact, Steinway says > you're not supposed to put anything of the kind on your > card, etc. even though I've seen it. They are very > guarded in this. > > Yes, it certainly gave me the willies! Rather surreal at > the time, funny later. > > Jim Busby > > > > > ________________________________ > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of Paul T Williams > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 6:48 AM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway school info (Steinway tech...) > > > Jim, > > This is good info as well. If I ever get "brave" > enough to approach our school for such an investment, at > least I might be qualified having been given the honor to > attend this summer's seminar in Oberlin. We are about > 50% Steinway, although many would be in need of total > rebuilding IMHO. I wonder where S&S would draw the line > on current condition of older Sty's.....Have you gone > through all the "steps" to be a certified S&S > tech? Does Steinway actually test you and put you on a list > of some sort? > > On the other hand, having other good grands can be a good > thing. Our M&H's and Yamahas are nice pianos and > give different colors to the music dept. > > BTW - nice story in the Journal. It gave me the willies. > I would have run for the door too! > > Paul T. Williams RPT > > > Jim Busby <jim_busby at byu.edu> > Sent by: caut-bounces at ptg.org > > 05/05/2008 03:57 PM > Please respond to > College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > To > > College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > cc > > > > Subject > > Re: [CAUT] Steinway school info (Steinway tech...) > > > > > > > > > > > Alan, List, > > At "Snow College", an All Steinway School in > Utah, they thought my bid for servicing was too high, so > they were going to get a local hack. (My opinion) I told > the Steinway dealer and he called NY. Steinway then > threatened to revoke the A.S. School status and void all > the warrantees unless a suitable "Steinway > Technician" did the work. (At least that's what I > was told.) I got the job at the price I asked. > > What is a "Steinway Technician"? It seems > it's whoever the dealership and/or Steinway say it is. > (I'm still not really sure.) At the time I had two of > the Steinway Academy classes so they chose me over the > other guy. > > What I was told later is that a technician should at least > have the 1st "Comprehensive Class" in New York or > Oberlin, along with the OK of the instructor and the S&S > dealer. > > Jim BusbyList, > > When you adjust the springs (for grams) in the Renner > underlever system how/where do you take the measurement? > I've installed about a dozen of these and realized > maybe I haven't been doing it correctly. Here's the > dilemma; > > Of course the spring increases resistance as you go > upwards. When you measure the # 1 lever as it's > parallel to the keybed the grams read 30. Lower it slightly > below (10 degrees?) parallel and it reads 26. Raise it > slightly above level and it's 33. Renner asks for 29 > low - 32 high. Is there a "best" way to do this > or have I been OK to just do them all at the same place, > i.e. parallel, or level to the keybed? > > Thanks, > Jim Busby > BYU_______________________________________________ > caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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