[CAUT] P-12ths was: Tuning a Steinway D andaBosendorferImperial together

[Richard Brekne]

Hi.

Been reading all these posts and cant help coming to the conclusion 
there is a bit of confusion about how ETD's actually work. An ETD has 
really two possible general ways of going about things. It can take into 
consideration each pianos inharmonicity or it can decide not to. The 
later has been cast by the wayside eons ago and ever since accounting 
for the pianos inharmonicity in some way or another is always been a 
part every (usable) ETD. There are a couple 2-3 approaches to this 
group. Measure on the fly directly and re-calculate the tuning 
(Verituner) Measure a few intervals ahead of time calculate supposed 
inharmonicity and impose a resultant tuning curve on the piano (RCT,  
Acutuner, Tunelab), or use a pre-supposed template which is used as the 
basis for direct reference tuning on the part of the piano technician.

What doesnt seem to be understood is that ETD's  are in a sense 
constructed to function as a kind of hybrid between human and machine. 
Some more then others. If one knows what coincident partials one is 
going to use for each, then you can in reality simply use any device 
that accurately enough reads a strings frequency as it vibrates and 
compare that frequency to another strings coincident partial, tuning as 
you go along exactly like aural tuners do.

Stoppers claim is that his partials selection when superimposed on the 
pianos inharmonicity... simply does the job we call stretch (which is 
nothing more then the selection of appropriate combinations of 
coincident partials to reference our tuning by) all by its self. I.e. 
simply super-impose a stretch (based on P-12ths) on every instruments 
inharmonicity.  Easy enough to do.  I do this all the time with Tune 
lab. And it does indeed work... and some of the descriptions I hear 
about the results of the Stopper tuning sound quite familiar indeed.

One more thing.  Whatever else Bernhard is... he's is indeed a very 
intelligent individual.  I see no reason on earth to doubt his maths 
abilities or his maths reasonings in this regard. His claim regarding 
this tuning as being the <<best ever>> are not to be taken in the 
subjective sense. There are objective criteria he uses to justify that 
claim, and if one accepts these objective criteria then he is probably 
100% correct.  Whether or not one on the other hand agrees with these 
criteria from a subjective experienced listening based standpoint is 
another discussion entirely. You cant really mix the two without getting 
all mired down in cross talking one another.

Cheers
RicB

        No calculated pitch raise function, but there is the full range
        of pitch levels available.

        No measurements, no saved tunings.

        I don't understand how it could possibly be "1 tuning file in a
        box",  based on the results I've heard on different pianos. But
        I don't know  
        for sure.

        Kent
        .....................

             From what you say, if some pianos are tuned wider and some
            narrower,   there could be only one curve in there and all
            pianos would be tuned  to the same frequencies note to note.
            This would explain how your   S&S and Bosendorfer sounded so
            good together.
            Marcel Carey

        Your comment is logical, but I still don't know.
        Kent