[CAUT] [SPAM] Re: using as ETD, was Re: Too tall!!??

Andrew Anderson andrew at andersonmusic.com
Mon Apr 12 07:48:01 MDT 2010


I've tuned a well temperament for a composer professor here who is  
careful now to specify Equal Temperament to me.  He knows and is quite  
sensitive to the difference in intervals.  No one else I tune for  
knows if anything is different.

Andrew Anderson

On Apr 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ed Sutton wrote:

> Laury-
>
> In my experience, the range of perception varies greatly from person  
> to person, and depends on repertoire and instrument as well.
> The standard answer is that temperament doesn't matter much, but  
> unisons and octaves matter a lot. This, of course, is the rule of  
> thumb for concert tuning under time pressure.
> Generalizations aren't very revealing, but individual responses can  
> give us a sense of what we should be prepared to facilitate.
> Therefore, why don't you tell us about yourself, and your  
> perceptions of temperament on piano, organ and harpsichord?
>
> Ed Sutton
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Laurence Libin
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] [SPAM] Re: using as ETD, was Re: Too tall!!??
>
> It would be interesting to compile and compare saved versions of  
> pleasing temperaments since this would indicate the range of today's  
> acceptable variation from true equal temperament. I wonder whether  
> experienced listeners tolerate wider variation in pianos than in  
> pipe organs.
> Laurence
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dr. Henry Nicolaides
> To: College and University Technicians
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] [SPAM] Re: using as ETD, was Re: Too tall!!??
>
> OK! I enjoy aural tuning, too.  Especially on pianos that lend  
> themselves to this process and have the resultant outcome.  Pleasing  
> interplay of intervals, as you described.  But, due to time  
> constraints and the previously mentioned stress reduction reasons, I  
> do not enjoy setting temperaments, stretching octaves, tweaking and  
> etc on the average home furniture called a piano.  Nor do I enjoy  
> the aural process on practice room verticals and some small grands.   
> Just as technology has allowed the cardiologist to gain more usable  
> information with "gadgets" I am sure he/she enjoys listening to the  
> heart with the traditional and old fashioned stethoscope.  Aural  
> tuning only, is a luxury that I simply can not afford.  Yes, I can  
> do it and enjoy the process.  ETD's  can get one so close that one a  
> concert tuning one can "tweak" if need be...then sit back a listen  
> to the interplay.  Five or so years ago I experienced listening and  
> comparing my aural tuning and then and ETD (Verituner) on an older  
> Kimball grand that I service two to three times a year.  In about  
> half the time with the ETD I had a tuning that, I have to admit, was  
> every bit as pleasing (maybe not quite the same character) as my  
> aural tuning.  Now, the tuning is saved and since I tune this piano  
> fairly frequently I am quite happy to use the ETD and be on my merry  
> way to the next piano.
> BTW, I use digital photography.  I got out of the darkroom a long  
> time ago, although I still enjoy processing my own film and making  
> prints on real photographic paper.
>
> Happy tuning!
>
> Henry Nicolaides
> Southern Illinois University
>
>
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:18:01 -0400
> From: tnrwim at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] [SPAM] Re: using as ETD, was Re: Too tall!!??
>
>
> I very much
> enjoy setting a temperament, then tweaking it to make it sound the  
> very
> best I can.  I like your wording, "interplay of intervals."  I like
> tuning octaves and unisons and the checks used in octave tuning.  I  
> like
> what the piano sounds like when I'm finished.
> Susan and Ed
>
> This is where I think you two might have the wrong impression of  
> what an ETD can do for you. First of all, as has been cited, for a  
> pitch raise, these things are invaluable. Using the the machine  
> leaves the piano almost exactly on pitch, (if you do it right). On a  
> regular tuning, using an ETD puts 99% of the piano right where it  
> should be. What is left, is exactly what you like to do. You can  
> interplay with all the intervals, and I would go out on a limb and  
> say that it actually allow you to be an even better tuning than you  
> are now. I use my SAT to tune the whole piano. Then I turn it off,  
> and tune the whole piano again, aurally. I tweak every interval.  
> When I get done, I really like the piano when I'm finished, because  
> I've put my personal touch to it.
>
> As far as the blinking lights are concerned, well, yes, Susan, I  
> guess they can be a little bit of a distraction. But, as you said,  
> to each his/her own.
>
> Wim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elwood Doss <edoss at utm.edu>
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Sent: Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] [SPAM] Re: using as ETD, was Re: Too tall!!??
>
> Hi Susan,
> I'm with you all the way.  It amazes me how many technicians who use  
> the
> ETDs try to convince us aural tuners how wonderful they are.  I tune
> aurally because I want to.  Not because I'm afraid of technology, Wim.
> Its because I am enthralled with being able to begin with one pitch  
> and
> tune the whole piano just using my ears and my intellect.  I very much
> enjoy setting a temperament, then tweaking it to make it sound the  
> very
> best I can.  I like your wording, "interplay of intervals."  I like
> tuning octaves and unisons and the checks used in octave tuning.  I  
> like
> what the piano sounds like when I'm finished.  I don't care whether  
> it's
> a Steinway D used on a concert stage or a Henry F. Miller spinet  
> that is
> to be played by a beginning piano student.  I put just as much  
> effort in
> tuning one as the other.  I like to listen to the finished product and
> realize that, starting from a single pitch source, I tuned that.
> Me...just me.  No ETD, just me.  If I started tuning at A1 and tuned  
> up
> the chromatic scales to C88 using an ETD, then this shear joy would
> become work...drudgery...I don't care how fast I could tune it or how
> "relaxed" I might be at the end of the day.  I'm sure there are plenty
> of piano technicians out there just like us, Susan.  May our tribe
> increase!
>
> Oh, and Wim, am I afraid of technology?  Well, let's see, I use a
> Sanderson Accu-Fork to get my A=440 pitch and to check how sharp or  
> flat
> the piano is.  Keeps me from having to have 3 hands.  Nice technology!
>
> Joy!
> Elwood
>
> Elwood Doss, Jr., M.Mus.Ed., RPT
> Piano Technician/Technical Director
> Department of Music
> 355 Clement Hall
> The University of Tennessee at Martin
> Martin, TN  38238
> 731/881-1852
> FAX: 731/881-7415
> HOME: 731/587-5700
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
> Susan Kline
> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:59 PM
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [CAUT] using as ETD, was Re: Too tall!!??
> Importance: Low
>
> To each his own, Wim.
>
> It's true I haven't tried using an ETD myself, but I've watched
> tuning with one. It didn't look tempting to me.
>
> And I hate blinky lights and twitching little readouts. I sometimes
> even turn off overhead fluorescent lights because they bother me.
>
> But mainly, I like the direct contact with the piano, and the  
> interplay
> of intervals. I just like the sounds.
>
> Anyway, enjoy your SAT IV.
>
> Susan
>
>
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