[CAUT] Fwd: liszt temp

[reggaepass at aol.com]

List (sorry, I couldn't resist),


If anyone is motivated enough to pursue the matter with Liszt specialists, below are where/whom to ask (references by a Liszt-o-phile friend of mine whom I've been keeping abreast of this thread).


Alan Eder





-----Original Message-----

To: reggaepass at aol.com
Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2010 11:17 am
Subject: Re: [CAUT] liszt temp


Dear Alan,
 
By the way,
 
The BIG authorities on this might be at the Liszt Museum in Budapest, the Editor of the NewLisztEdition, the Liszt Society in UK...
 



 
 
 

In a message dated 1/25/2010 9:50:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, reggaepass at aol.com writes:
Just in case you are interested in following   this thread further...

  
ae

  
-----Original   Message-----
From: Dennis Johnson <johnsond at stolaf.edu>
To: Ed   Sutton <ed440 at mindspring.com>; caut at ptg.org
Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2010   7:57 am
Subject: Re: [CAUT] liszt temp

  
Maybe, but with some   exceptions. There are plenty of beautifully romantic examples that show his   sensitivity and awareness of key color.  I also suggest that musicians of   his day would perceive a close ET or mild Victorian tuning differently then   musicians today due to our very different conditioning of color from the   past.  This can not be qualified in exact terms, but should be   considered.   

I did a presentation here in the early 90's which   included an analysis of Liszt's 3rd Liebestraume in Ab showing nearly measure   by measure examples of how he treats intervals, especially of Ab and Cmaj.   When the middle passage briefly slips into B maj, it has an errie, soft   effect. I can't go into those details here, but my primary suggestion is that   even if many of the "best" tuners were actually tuning close to ET by that   time, it does not follow that therefore every composition sounds best to the   composers feeling or intent in ET.  I can not speak for Liszt, or his   intent, but I can show that he used effective compositional techniques that   demonstrate an awareness of color.  What we choose to do with is an   individual call, but it is there.  

best,

Dennis   Johnson
St. Olaf College
____________________

  
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Ed Sutton <ed440 at mindspring.com>   wrote:
  
    
    
While I don't know Liszt's music well, it     doesn't strike me as the sort of music that would display temperament colors     particularly well. He is especially interested in big sonorities that tend     to overwhelm subtle colorations in close mid-range intervals. I'm sure he     heard many kinds of tunings in his travels and long life, including lots of     ET and reasonably close attempts at ET. Perhaps someone who knows his music     well can correct my opinion.
    
 
    
Ed Sutton
    
    
    
    
      
-----       Original Message ----- 
      
From:       Fred       Sturm 
      
To:       caut at ptg.org       
      
Sent:       Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:01 PM
      
Subject:       Re: [CAUT] liszt temp
      


      
      
      
On Jan 24, 2010, at 1:55 PM, G Cousins wrote:

      
        
Does anyone have an         insight as to the temperament that Franz Liszt might have been using for         his piano works?
Nothing yet found in my research. I'm thinking some         sort of pre-modern ET.  Thanks in advance,
Gerry         C



      
      
      
      
      
I would say definitely ET. By the       time he was first writing in Paris, the work of Claude Montal had pretty       well established a very refined method of achieving ET, which had long       been established as the norm in Germany, where refined methods were also       available. That would already apply to his earliest works, and ET       continued to become even more prevalent later. This is not to say that one       can't speculate about the existence of variant methods during this time       (and about degrees of accuracy and skill), but the overwhelming evidence       for this time period (about 1830-1885), outside Italy and England, is in       favor of virtually universal acceptance of ET - and of methods that       allowed aural tuners to achieve it with considerable accuracy.
      
Liszt was a prolific writer. Perhaps       somewhere in his output of letters there is some bit of information about       his predilections regarding tuning, but I don't think so. Otherwise,       surely somebody would have trotted it out as an exhibit A. In fact,       surprisingly enough, very few composers expressed opinions on       temperament.
      
      
Regards,       
Fred Sturm
      
University of New Mexico
      
fssturm at unm.edu
















 
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