Or keep your eye for a better school...I don't think it would hurt to test the waters and if the powers that be were to find out...even better. David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Paul T Williams" <pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu> To: caut at ptg.org Received: 5/14/2010 2:50:04 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT Endorsement Requirements Misperception -was Preaching to the Choir >Good points. >I, for one, after gaining approval from our Director, to attend regionals, >nationals, or Steinway seminars, make sure it's documented in my file in >the office and really talk it up with the piano and other salient faculty. > The downside is that if there is no $$ in the music schools to turn this >around to a bigger salary, then, there I am with more education, better >pianos for the school, and there I am with the same salary. I consider >myself now as having a doctorate+ equivalent in knowledge of piano >technology as those who have a doctorate in piano, bassoon, or music >theory. They all make far more than I do. >I consider those great techs on this list who give me endless education >and information (THANK YOU ALL!!) and my mentors; Steve Brady, Michael >Reiter, Roger Gable, Jeannie Grassie, David Stanwood, Del Fandrich, and >others too many to mention, to be PhD's in this field of endeavor. (I have >to go to my homeland Northwest for those who got me going!!!) The endless >question of "why?" will always come up. Why aren't we paid more? It's >the pure economics... that some "dude" will be willing to do the job for >less pay, and that's what the schools want as a bottom line in economic >terms. All they look at is the economics; period. Yet, they will always >expect the piano to sound great when Yo Yo Ma comes to town, etc. but have >no interest in paying great RPT's to maintain their instruments on a >day-to-day basis. >I see no real "end" to this with a new "credential" saying we're a CAUT, >unless we're some sort of union....ie Only those with certain credentials >CAN work for a university or college, is far fetched although I like the >idea in a dream state. How do we convince the highest ranks of wallets to >believe us? That's where the monies are, and that's what makes the music >schools go. Those are the Foundation members, Boards of Regents, or >whatever drives your university dollars. It is their wallets and hearts >we must hit, not just letters at the end of our names. >I'll continue to grow, as I love this business and want to make pianos >better, no matter what anybody thinks! Sadly I may not make much more $$ >for all my ever expanding knowledge. At least I'll die doing my best to >make music better.... >Enough from me. >Paul >From: >"rwest1 at unl.edu" <rwest1 at unl.edu> >To: >caut at ptg.org >Date: >05/14/2010 03:53 PM >Subject: >Re: [CAUT] CAUT Endorsement Requirements Misperception - was Preaching >to the Choir >Why couldn't CAUT develop resume builders, i.e., suggested classes and >certificates stating that a person attended those classes. For example, >attending Steinway seminars should be CAUT suggested classes. as well as >Yamaha Little Red School House. The same with Diskavier and PianoDisk >seminars. Closer to home, every national or regional seminar should grant >proof of attendance to regional classes or annual convention classes for >those that want such proof. The certificate could list the classes that >the person attended. Such pieces of paper would not only be good for >those wanting to get a job at a university, but it would be good for those >who already has a position and is wanting to prove to the institution that >the technician was participating in professional classes. >Richard West >On May 14, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Chris Solliday wrote: >Bill, >Well if it is SO easy, then just drop the RPT requirement and you will >find a great deal more support. The RPT franchise can be marketed to >institutions on its own merit. Of course there will be a few of your >supporters who will disagree, but we must look for a way for the whole >organization to participate in additional certifications. In fact just to >get the record straight all additional certifications should be open to >ALL PTG members. Then it IS as simple as taking some courses and some >written tests. (It was Kent Swafford who said, “I thought this would be >simpler.†Or words to that ...) This gives us the universality and >flexibility to distinguish those in other area of expertise who will not >be tuners as well. And it would allow us to include those very well >trained (factory and other) CAUTs who are not RPTs but might want to >become so if not forced to. > > In the face of self interest and political reality please ask yourself >why the RPTs who will be voting in council would vote to make a few of >their rank RPTs plus, or uber techs, or whatever you want to call it when >you build only on the RPT franchise. Franchise ownership is a separate >issue. And a much bigger prize. > >Why would an RPT who does not do much or no institutional work agree to >giving an RPT a larger status than he or she has? Drop the RPT component >and the endorsement makes sense with a few tweaks. The elephant in the >room is , the CAUT endorsement should be open to all, as we have been >suggesting to you for quite some time. Continuing to put your head in the >sand and continuing to recite what you hope might come true over and over >is probably not going to work. > > I don’t think btw that Jeff Tanner is unfamiliar with the proposal as you >would digress. You should have been listening to what he and others have >been saying on this issue for years, then maybe you would be familiar with >what is reasonable and possible within the PTG structure. > >It always amazes me when piano technicians don’t listen. >Chris Solliday > >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >Bdshull at aol.com >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:37 AM >To: caut at ptg.org >Subject: [CAUT] CAUT Endorsement Requirements Misperception - was >Preaching to the Choir > >Hi, Jeff, > >Your last few posts lead me to think you are not familiar with the CAUT >Endorsement proposal requirements, and it might be that others have this >same misperception too. It would be easy, if one is to just read >Regulations and Codes Article IV, to come to the conclusion that the CAUT >Endorsement might only be attained by attending the CAUT Academy courses >and taking the 4 written tests. However, this is a mis-read of the >proposal. The core of the proposal is in bylaws. If you don't have the >May supplement you may go to the PTG Page members area, and follow the >links - resources, forms and documents, Council 2010, Organizational/LRP: > >http://www.ptg.org/members/docs/2010/2010_Council_Agenda_Section_4-Organiz >ational-LRP.pdf > >The only requirements in order to obtain this endorsement are that one be >a Registered Piano Technician, and that one pass a written test on >CAUT-related subjects. The CAUT Endorsement is designed like a >certification, similar to the RPT; preparation for it is not proscribed >but a CAUT Academy is offered with comprehensive curriculum. This is >similar to the RPT itself, where a variety of paths or combination thereof >can lead to the CAUT Endorsement - trade schools, apprenticeships, the >Randy Potter course, the PACE lessons. > >A CAUT Academy curriculum will be developed and offered, and each segment >will be followed by written tests. This road to the CAUT Endorsement >will be an incredible opportunity to master the knowledge and skills >needed for college and university work. However, there are no proscribed >courses to obtain the CAUT Endorsement in this proposal. > >I would expect that all of the excellent training programs - the Theodore >Steinway Seminars, the Little Red Schoolhouse, etc, that you've referred >to could be of use in preparing for the CAUT Endorsement, as they address >many of the skills required in the college and university setting. These >courses are limited in their applicant pool, while the PTG does not, and >can not place anti-competitive restrictions on its certifications. >Further, the CAUT Academy curriculum would be CAUT-comprehensive in >nature, unlike anything else available. > >I would also expect that the CAUT Academy, specifically tailored to the >college setting - and not manufacturer-specific - would be an ideal >preparation for College and University work, as it will be taught by >leading technicians in the field. > >The time may come when the PTG community would approve of additional >testing beyond a written test, but the development of skills tests is a >large project. Testing must meet a number of standards, and a process of >beta-testing would also be required. Needless to say this has been the >subject of considerable discussion in the committee, as well as in >conversations with the board and bylaws. It was felt that this approach >to CAUT Endorsement requirements would not be onerous or unachievable by >qualified members (RPTs). > >The CAUT Endorsement testing would also provide the candidate with an >assessment of areas needing further training or education. But there are >only these two requirements - RPT status and the passing of a written >test. > >I hope that you might see that this might satisfy your concerns. Some >have considered this a "watered-down" and ineffective proposal, but your >arguments actually make the case for the proposal as it is presented, not >onerous, not complex, not unattainable, but still a reflection of a >commitment to a certain knowledge base, as well as a commitment to >continued growth and participation in the CAUT community. > >The curriculum component of this endorsement is voluntary. Even if the >applicant doesn't attend the CAUT Academy, the curriculum is important in >that it defines the skills and knowledge base needed for CAUT piano >service, and should be an excellent source of CAUT-specific training and >education. Anyone who hasn't studied the proposal should look over the >curriculum ; they will see the wide range of areas the CAUT technician >works in. At present it is only summarized in "regulations" as: > >The CAUT Workplace: Administrative topics. >Concert Tuning and Preparations. >Historic instrument Tuning and Maintenance >Special Topics in Servicing Institutional Instruments > >A detailed outline of this curriculum title "Components of Endorsement" >was provided last year to council, and I expect that similar supporting >documentation in the form of of a beta Policy Handbook with a fleshed-out >curriculum will be provided this year, too. > >Regards, > >Bill > >Bill Shull, RPT, M.Mus. >CAUT Committee Member > > > In a message dated 5/12/2010 3:23:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >tannertuner at bellsouth.net writes: >Yes, a certificate of merit from CAUT. Not a doctoral degree in every >conceivable facet of the trade plus tangents into other trades. If nothing >else, schools might also encourage their tech to attend Yamaha and >Steinway >training seminars, which the CAUT degree would not, could not recognize. >And >since there is no way for a CAUT endorsement to recognize other training >programs considered highly respected and viable by university faculties >and >performing artists, it renders the PTG CAUT endorsement uncredible. >Jeff >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> >To: <tannertuner at bellsouth.net> >Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:32 PM >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Preaching to the choir;was University of Idaho Piano >Tech Vacancy >> If schools want to do on the job training, that's what they'll do. They >> do need to be aware of the talent pool out there and a certificate of >> merit from CAUT could start their education. PTG/CAUT needs to be >> bombarding music departments with this info. If nothing else, schools >> might require their tech to attend classes with PTG... >> >> David Ilvedson, RPT >> Pacifica, CA 94044 >
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC