[CAUT] Steinway sound

[rwest1 at unl.edu]

Dale,

I don't have a current project going, but I've always wondered what  
it would be like to go with early designs.  And I don't particularly  
like the way Steinway is going with its current designs.  In  
particular I've wondered about the whipping effect a lighter, longer  
shank might provide.  It seems like the difference between a catapult  
and a trebuchet.  I know the leverage is totally different, but my  
point is whipping versus jamming the hammer toward the string.  I've  
seen the high speed videos and I was amazed at how much the hammer  
shank bends on a hard blow.  In fact the hammer doesn't strike at 90  
degrees because it tilts back so far, then scrubs the string a couple  
of times before it's finally clear.  Amazing and thought provoking.

Richard West


On Feb 28, 2011, at 10:34 AM, Dale Erwin wrote:

>   Hi Richard
>    For sure Ed,.... Seems a legitimate question.
>    But Richards question has to do with the original high action  
> ratio and light hammer Pre-war-Steinway.  Some time back Ray had  
> supplied some test hammers to some folks at Steinway.  The comments  
> came back that they were more like the original hammers Stwy made  
> before the WW-2, than what they made now.
>    So,the short answer is yes, Ray can and does produce hammers  
> that are in that early range of lightness. Made in the same type of  
> press as early Steinways. Just tell us what you are trying to do  
> and your desired target weights. I don't think you can get closer  
> to authentic weight and felt density than this on the planet
>  Keep in mind some of those weights were crazy light. ie. On a n S  
> in the shop.... note 4.....7.8 grams.... note 40 -6.5
>   get out! An accurate evaluation of the action ratio will tell you  
> us what the particular weight parameters you are needing for the  
> action before you.
>  The raw hammer in the bass section in most hammers can usually be  
> reduced by 1 & 1/2 grams & sometimes more. 1 in the ten. treble.  
> Hey, I can even do a Stanwood type hammer eight prep for you.
>
> Dale S. Erwin
> www.Erwinspiano.com
> Custom restoration
> Ronsen Piano hammers
> Join the Weickert felt Revolution
> 209-577-8397
> 209-985-0990
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Sutton <ed440 at mindspring.com>
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:14 am
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway sound
>
> For what it's worth, here is another question:
>
> David Stanwood's Touchweight Metrology formulas (ca. 1995) have  
> brought about a revolution (or evolutionary change) in action  
> rebuilding, including, I think it's fair to say, a small cottage  
> industry in redesigning Steinway actions.
>
> Is anyone complaining that these instruments "Don't have the  
> Steinway touch?"
>
> (I have heard a Steinway trained salesman say "If you want the  
> Steinway touch, you've got to have a genuine Steinway!")
>
> Ed Sutton
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dale Erwin
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway sound
>
>    I'm good with this statement Horace.
>   In my own practice I have been trying in most cases to not  
> deviate to far from the core tonal expectations for several reasons.
> 1.  I like the basic Steinway sound at its best, & so do many ears
> 2. I'm conservative with my clients pianos again trying to enhance  
> the best components of the tone.
> 3. Redesigning the piano too much can influence its marketability  
> in the minds of some.  For others they would find it a plus to own  
> a Hot Rod so to speak. Hey, different strokes.
>
>  I personally prefer to judge the piano by its sound not the  
> design. That is..... what pianist do. They don't look under the hood.
>   Heres the question. What constitutes a redesign?  Most guys out  
> in small shops are not compression crowning there boards but   
> crowning the ribs to some degree to support crown. Drying the board  
> far less. Neither is a Steinway parameter. This is our primary  
> deviation. Do these pianos sound like Steinways? It doesn't matter  
> what I think if the client likes them.
>
> So here is an opportunity to see my The Erwin & Sons Re-  
> manufactured 1930s Steinway B Hot Rod on display if you'll are  
> coming to the WEST-PACS. in S.F. next week.  It will be there in  
> the hall and in the Ronsen Class room.
>   Dale
>
>
> >
> > In any event, I very much like Brent's concept of complimenting >  
> whatever design might exist "without alienating the core tonal >  
> expectations..."; and working in smaller venues while new designs >  
> are tested more thoroughly to see what does and does not stand up >  
> to performance needs and expectations. That is a very wide field >  
> of tone and response to explore, with tremendous room for >  
> variation; and, as Brent notes, no one's career or reputation winds  
> > up on the line.
> >
> > Developing things along these kinds of lines sounds to me like >  
> everyone wins...and that qualifies as a Very Good Thing.
> >
> > Best.
> >
> > Horace
> >
> >
>

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