Am I the only one that finds your pictures distorted? The seem to be taken from a side angle? The hammers appear skinny. Or, is it my e-mail program that is not compatible? I thought I noticed this on a previous post, but let it go. John Ross Windsor, Nova Scotia On 2011-03-01, at 3:29 AM, Dale Erwin wrote: > > > > From: Dale Erwin <erwinspiano at aol.com> > To: caut at ptg.org > Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:26 pm > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway sound-Hammer weights > > Hi Richard > I was prepping a set of 14 lb Ronsen Weickert felt hammer today & based on your comments > <Model S hammer weights - Weickert felt.jpg> > > I thought this might be a place for a few interesting pictures > <Model S hammers--new set.jpg> > New set cut to length and coved. Light weight maple moldings > . > I use each C-note hammer on the piano as my samples when determining what was there originally and what choices can be made in terms of weight. Remember I said they were "crazy light". Note the old weights. The old hammers do not even appear to be that worn. Even so it might be ok to extrapolate that they once weighed a few tenths of a gram more, but even that's feather light compared to modern weights. > My goal weight on the extreme right is what I would choose to install on this piano with the high ratio, high velocity system in this piano. I would not go that light. Its ridiculous. This action has action ratio issues so we are moving the knuckle out to handle ta bit more hammer weight and removing some lead. > I separated the molding from an original treble hammer. 2.26 grams. Very light. Prepping this set of raw Ronsen hammers will be quite easy to take 1 & 1/2 ish grams off in the bass and 1 in the tenor treble to make the weight listed at the left. So Ihope this has answered your question as to weather modern hammer made the old fashioned way is available for the original model of action prevalent in Pre-war Steinways. Cheers-Dale > <Model S hammers --weights-old vs. new.jpg> > > > Dale S. Erwin > www.Erwinspiano.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rwest1 at unl.edu <rwest1 at unl.edu> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway sound > > Dale, > > I don't have a current project going, but I've always wondered what it would be like to go with early designs. And I don't particularly like the way Steinway is going with its current designs. In particular I've wondered about the whipping effect a lighter, longer shank might provide. It seems like the difference between a catapult and a trebuchet. I know the leverage is totally different, but my point is whipping versus jamming the hammer toward the string. I've seen the high speed videos and I was amazed at how much the hammer shank bends on a hard blow. In fact the hammer doesn't strike at 90 degrees because it tilts back so far, then scrubs the string a couple of times before it's finally clear. Amazing and thought provoking. > > Richard West > > > On Feb 28, 2011, at 10:34 AM, Dale Erwin wrote: > >> Hi Richard >> For sure Ed,.... Seems a legitimate question. >> But Richards question has to do with the original high action ratio and light hammer Pre-war-Steinway. Some time back Ray had supplied some test hammers to some folks at Steinway. The comments came back that they were more like the original hammers Stwy made before the WW-2, than what they made now. >> So,the short answer is yes, Ray can and does produce hammers that are in that early range of lightness. Made in the same type of press as early Steinways. Just tell us what you are trying to do and your desired target weights. I don't think you can get closer to authentic weight and felt density than this on the planet >> Keep in mind some of those weights were crazy light. ie. On a n S in the shop.... note 4.....7.8 grams.... note 40 -6.5 >> get out! An accurate evaluation of the action ratio will tell you us what the particular weight parameters you are needing for the action before you. >> The raw hammer in the bass section in most hammers can usually be reduced by 1 & 1/2 grams & sometimes more. 1 in the ten. treble. Hey, I can even do a Stanwood type hammer eight prep for you. >> >> Dale S. Erwin >> www.Erwinspiano.com >> Custom restoration >> Ronsen Piano hammers >> Join the Weickert felt Revolution >> 209-577-8397 >> 209-985-0990 >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ed Sutton <ed440 at mindspring.com> >> To: caut at ptg.org >> Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2011 8:14 am >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway sound >> >> For what it's worth, here is another question: >> >> David Stanwood's Touchweight Metrology formulas (ca. 1995) have brought about a revolution (or evolutionary change) in action rebuilding, including, I think it's fair to say, a small cottage industry in redesigning Steinway actions. >> >> Is anyone complaining that these instruments "Don't have the Steinway touch?" >> >> (I have heard a Steinway trained salesman say "If you want the Steinway touch, you've got to have a genuine Steinway!") >> >> Ed Sutton >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dale Erwin >> To: caut at ptg.org >> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 10:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway sound >> >> I'm good with this statement Horace. >> In my own practice I have been trying in most cases to not deviate to far from the core tonal expectations for several reasons. >> 1. I like the basic Steinway sound at its best, & so do many ears >> 2. I'm conservative with my clients pianos again trying to enhance the best components of the tone. >> 3. Redesigning the piano too much can influence its marketability in the minds of some. For others they would find it a plus to own a Hot Rod so to speak. Hey, different strokes. >> >> I personally prefer to judge the piano by its sound not the design. That is..... what pianist do. They don't look under the hood. >> Heres the question. What constitutes a redesign? Most guys out in small shops are not compression crowning there boards but crowning the ribs to some degree to support crown. Drying the board far less. Neither is a Steinway parameter. This is our primary deviation. Do these pianos sound like Steinways? It doesn't matter what I think if the client likes them. >> >> So here is an opportunity to see my The Erwin & Sons Re- manufactured 1930s Steinway B Hot Rod on display if you'll are coming to the WEST-PACS. in S.F. next week. It will be there in the hall and in the Ronsen Class room. >> Dale >> >> >> > >> > In any event, I very much like Brent's concept of complimenting > whatever design might exist "without alienating the core tonal > expectations..."; and working in smaller venues while new designs > are tested more thoroughly to see what does and does not stand up > to performance needs and expectations. That is a very wide field > of tone and response to explore, with tremendous room for > variation; and, as Brent notes, no one's career or reputation winds > up on the line. >> > >> > Developing things along these kinds of lines sounds to me like > everyone wins...and that qualifies as a Very Good Thing. >> > >> > Best. >> > >> > Horace >> > >> > >> > > = > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20110301/32ccbefd/attachment.htm>
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