Kevein
For what its worth we have also been frustrated with the short life of cloth bushings in high use situations. I do have a set installed on a high use D at a local college.and they have held up with out incident ie squeaks etc. I set them up at as close to zero side play as I could get away with and it took a year for them to play in so that there was nominal clearance. In other words a perfect fit. Untill they got to this point though there was a comment about the friction when aggressive playing forced the key against the side of the pin.
They are more problematic to install. Trix is the bushing queen and she says its a headache. The issue is getting the right thickness of leather so fit come out just right. It is possible to shrink and iron felt but nos so with leather.
The upside is they hold up. Its important to put the slick or the smooth side against the pin. I can't recall which....at this moment.... which it is.
Dale S. Erwin
www.Erwinspiano.com
209-577-8397
209-985-0990
Ronsen hammers--R&D
"-pre-hung hammers"
Sitka- Soundboard- Supplies
Panels & Ribstock
-----Original Message-----
From: Fortenberry, Kevin <kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu>
To: caut <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:12 am
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Leather Bushings
Roger and all, I have been enjoying this discussion about using leather
bushings. I am very interested in trying this on a few piano faculty pianos in
hopes that they will last LONGER. What I am getting from you so far is, install
only on balance rail as cloth on front is more quiet, and get leather from Forte
Piano in Canada since he has excellent quality in several different thicknesses.
I would assume hide glue. It also sounds like have a few different sizes on hand
would be good as the fit would be fairly critical. What about the final
fitting/sizing or if some come out inconsistent? Do the heated cauls help with
this? How about alchohol/water?
Thanks for the help, Kevin Fortenberry, Texas Tech University
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
caut-request at ptg.org
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:31 PM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 34, Issue 7
Send CAUT mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: B????sendorfer question (Roger Jolly)
2. Re: B????sendorfer question (Alan Eder)
3. Read your message before it gets deleted! (Badoo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:31:32 -0600
From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net>
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20110829141325.022cc918 at mail.sasktel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Hi Alan,
I thought those pins were 0.135"? again I am going from my
faded memory, in which case use 0.137 cauls. Use hide hot glue, don't push
the caul all the way in and use a razor blade to trim flush with the top of
the button. Once trimmed push the caul down the extra 2 or 3 mm.
You are correct about the glue and leather, very little wicking.
When I have used the tan side to the pin, I've found it prone to squeaks.
The leather last at least 5 times longer. I still bush the front rail with
cloth, it is quieter. Because there is less key roll with leather BR
bushings the FR seems to also last longer.
We have converted most of our instruments to leather and are very pleased
with the results. Level and dip appears more stable. We have not had to re
bush any of the leather converts, and a number of these pianos were done 5
years ago.
Expect a spirited discussion on tan in and tan out. The above is just my
experience. Probably there is no right answer. I use a small artist brush
to coat the nap in Teflon powder. It seems to stay put long enough for the
nap to lay down.
The leather/maple button seems to be more stable with humidity swings.
Regards Roger
At 01:59 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote:
>Hi Roger,
>
>Thanks for the input on key bushing with leather. ? Nap towards the pin,
>eh? ? Not what I would have guessed (but I have zero experience bushing
>keys with leather at the moment, so what do I know?). ? Do you use hot
>animal hide glue? ? Any special considerations (vs. bushing w/ cloth)??
>If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm.
>
>... which would be about .043". ? I suppose the appropriate thickness of
>leather depends, as with cloth, on the difference between the size of the
>mortise and the size of the key pins (less whatever needs to be figured in
>for the glue line--and I imagine that leather will be less absorbent of
>glue than cloth, particularly if the glue is applied to the tanned side of
>the leather).
>
>Have you found leather to last substantially longer than cloth? ? And as
>it starts to wear, is there a way to resuscitate it (like there is with cloth)?
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Alan Eder
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net>
>To: caut <caut at ptg.org>
>Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 8:30 am
>Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
>
>
>Hi Alan,
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Get your leather from Jurgen at Piano Forte he
>sells it in several thicknesses, 0.1mm increments. I use it with the nap
>towards the pins, dusted with micro fine Teflon powder. No squeaky
>leather.? If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm.
>
>Regards Roger
>
>
>
>At 12:00 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote:
>>Hi Ted,
>>I will be rebushing with leather.
>>
>>I am about to rebush a set of keys with leather, a first-time experience
>>for me. ?? Any tips you would be willing to share?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Alan Eder
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Edward Sambell <<mailto:esambell at yahoo.com>esambell at yahoo.com>
>>To: caut <<mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org>
>>Sent: Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:42 am
>>Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
>>
>>Stan,
>>
>>I have worked on many Bosendorfers and the keypin diameters were .135".
>>In fact I am doing one now, and it too has .135" on both rails. I will be
>>rebushing with leather. The keys are made by Herrberger Brooks (UK) but
>>this size seems to be common with European pianos.
>>
>>Regards, Ted Sambell
>>
>>From: Stan Kroeker <smkroeker at shaw.ca>
>>To: caut at ptg.org
>>Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 1:26:03 PM
>>Subject: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
>>Hello all,
>>Have just received a set of B????sendorfer keys from a colleague for
>>rebushing and am worried that the keypin diameters may not have been
>>measured accurately.??? Is anyone able to share these specs?
>>Best regards from the sun-baked Canadian prairie!
>>Stan Kroeker, RPT
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 17:40:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan Eder <reggaepass at aol.com>
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
Message-ID: <8CE34AB63E831D2-146C-3F3BF at Webmail-m118.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Roger,
Thanks so much for your detailed response. Lots of very useful information.
Mucho appreciado!
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net>
To: caut <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 9:46 am
Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
Hi Alan,
Ithought those pins were 0.135"? again I am going from my
fadedmemory, in which case use 0.137 cauls. Use hide hot glue, don'tpush the
caul all the way in and use a razor blade to trim flush with thetop of the
button. Once trimmed push the caul down the extra 2 or 3mm.
You are correct about the glue and leather, very little wicking.
When I have used the tan side to the pin, I've found it prone tosqueaks.
The leather last at least 5 times longer. I still bush the frontrail with
cloth, it is quieter. Because there is less key roll withleather BR bushings
the FR seems to also last longer.
We have converted most of our instruments to leather and are very pleasedwith
the results. Level and dip appears more stable. We have not had tore bush any of
the leather converts, and a number of these pianos weredone 5 years ago.
Expect a spirited discussion on tan in and tan out. The above is just
myexperience. Probably there is no right answer. I use a small artist brushto
coat the nap in Teflon powder. It seems to stay put long enough forthe nap to
lay down.
The leather/maple button seems to be more stable with humidityswings.
Regards Roger
At 01:59 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote:
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the input on key bushing with leather. ? Nap towards the pin,eh? ?
Not what I would have guessed (but I have zero experience bushingkeys with
leather at the moment, so what do I know?). ? Do you use hotanimal hide glue? ?
Any special considerations (vs. bushing w/ cloth)??
If my memory serves me correctly I use 1.1mm.
... which would be about .043". ? I suppose the appropriatethickness of leather
depends, as with cloth, on the difference betweenthe size of the mortise and the
size of the key pins (less whatever needsto be figured in for the glue line--and
I imagine that leather will beless absorbent of glue than cloth, particularly if
the glue is applied tothe tanned side of the leather).
Have you found leather to last substantially longer than cloth? ? And asit
starts to wear, is there a way to resuscitate it (like there is withcloth)?
Many thanks,
Alan Eder
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Jolly <roger.j at sasktel.net>
To: caut <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
Hi Alan,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Get your leather from Jurgen at PianoForte he sells
it in several thicknesses, 0.1mm increments. I use it withthe nap towards the
pins, dusted with micro fine Teflon powder. Nosqueaky leather.? If my memory
serves me correctly I use1.1mm.
Regards Roger
At 12:00 PM 8/29/2011, you wrote:
Hi Ted,
I will be rebushing with leather.
I am about to rebush a set of keys with leather, a first-timeexperience for me.
?? Any tips you would be willing to share?
Thanks,
Alan Eder
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Sambell<esambell at yahoo.com>
To: caut <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:42 am
Subject: Re: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
Stan,
I have worked on many Bosendorfers and the keypin diameters were.135". In fact I
am doing one now, and it too has .135" on bothrails. I will be rebushing with
leather. The keys are made by HerrbergerBrooks (UK) but this size seems to be
common with Europeanpianos.
Regards, Ted Sambell
From: Stan Kroeker<smkroeker at shaw.ca>
To: caut at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 1:26:03 PM
Subject: [CAUT] B????sendorfer question
Hello all,
Have just received a set of B????sendorfer keys from a colleague forrebushing
and am worried that the keypin diameters may not have beenmeasured
accurately.??? Is anyone able to share these specs?
Best regards from the sun-baked Canadian prairie!
Stan Kroeker, RPT
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 04:23:55 +0000
From: Badoo <noreply at badoo.com>
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: [CAUT] Read your message before it gets deleted!
Message-ID: <20110830043030.B558CF1E14 at ptg.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
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