I had a very similar experience in central Texas about 12 years ago--VERY similar to Jerry's--also not Yamaha. But the scenario is going to be about the same no matter how INCREDIBLE the pianos are (although I will admit that Yamahas DO seem to be better prepped right out of the box than almost all the others---my experience from working music stores/floor tunings for three dealers over about an 18 year period--including, Yamaha, Kawai, Baldwin, Steinway, Pearl River, Sejung (sp?), and others.) The only way I could see it being a good decision is if there is just no other way around it--if the school is just desperate--MAYBE, POSSIBLY--this could be a positive thing on a somewhat temporary basis. All the huge piano sales every year is also just a huge hassle (unless Yamaha does it better). Kevin Fortenberry, Texas Tech University On 6/7/12 6:13 PM, "caut-request at ptg.org" <caut-request at ptg.org> wrote: >Send CAUT mailing list submissions to > caut at ptg.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > caut-request at ptg.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > caut-owner at ptg.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Yamaha Exchange program; pros, cons (Jerry Groot) > 2. University loan programs (James Schmitt) > 3. Re: Yamaha Exchange program; pros, cons (Paul Williams) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:05:56 -0400 >From: "Jerry Groot" <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> >To: <caut at ptg.org> >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Yamaha Exchange program; pros, cons >Message-ID: <003801cd44f9$b7189740$2549c5c0$@net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >My college did this for 17 years or more. Each year, we were getting >between 30 & 35 new pianos brought in. At first it was a good deal all >the >way around. "Free pianos to use for one year but for the cost of the >tunings." Sales were up, so the dealer sold a lot of units every year >during their yearly sale and of course, the college saved a considerable >amount of money in repair work, literally thousands of dollars. > > > >We did not do it with Yamaha. It was another brand. > > > >While getting new pianos every year does have its upside, a warranty being >one positive thing, there is a downside to it. Dealing with all of the >issues that continually crop up every single year with new pianos. One >problem we encountered most of the time, were pianos that were being >delivered totally un-prepped. Often, uncrated right on the spot.. You >know >what that means. A lot of extra work! Major pitch raises and a lot of >prep >work. > > > >We also encountered frequent problems with the pianos. Things from >bobbling >hammers to blocking hammers 6 months later, to sticking keys and loose >hammer heads and butts. Of course we also had pianos where the tuning >changed rather quickly due to being brand new. Consequently, I had dozens >of emergency calls, one after the another until I could work through all >of >the problems. Then, the pianos were sold and it started all over again >the >following fall. That got old fast!!!!! > > > >We never had a real chance for the pianos to settle in. They were >delivered >the last week in August and school is out the 2nd week of May. > > > >As the economy took a nose dive so did sales. Toward the end of the sale, >the rules changed for the college. To save money, they were made to pay >for >a lot more things other than tunings.. That's all I'll say about that. >Due >to that however, I talked them into ending the sale. We chose to purchase >over 26 new pianos and some digitals. It was still a win-win for the >dealer. But, for the college, I'm not so sure. They spent tens of >thousands replacing them. > > > >On the flip side though, in my opinion we are better off with pianos that >are "being seasoned" and pianos that I can get to know permanently. >Pianos >that I can fix and pianos that will stay fixed because they are not >rotated >yearly. Plus, they hold tuning a whole lot better now! > > > >I wouldn't recommend it, but then, we didn't have Yamaha's either... > > > >Jer > > > >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >Aaron >Bousel >Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 2:34 PM >To: caut at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Yamaha Exchange program; pros, cons > > > >I can agree with much of what has already been said. The reliability and >integrity of the dealer is very important. We had a program for many years >in which the department received 14 pianos each fall. Eleven verticals >(mostly P22, a few U1, and more recently some T118/120) and three small >grands. The department was required to buy one piano at the end of the >academic year and the dealer got to hold a sale at the Fine Arts Center. >The >program was ended at the end of the 2009-2010 academic year. The person >who >dealt with the dealership found them unreliable (pianos never showed up >when >they were supposed to) and sometimes less than honest. (I've never heard >the >dealer's side of things, however.) The department chair effectively >lobbied >the dean and they were able to get enough money in hand to buy new pianos >to >replace the loaners. Many were bought through the same dealer so the >dealer >really couldn't complain. The one thing I really liked about the program >was >that the department was forced to buy one new piano (it was always a P22) >each year which meant I could get rid of one old piano and was able to go >some distance in getting rid of some of the worst instruments. Having a >forced rotation of stock was a very good thing. With all the recently >purchased pianos the department doesn't have to get rid of anything >immediately, but that day will come and will be subject to the budgetary >process in a way that it wasn't before. > >One thought, to avoid getting into a situation where you're completely >dependent on the program, an institution could purchase more than the >required piano each year so that after a certain number of years the >instrument stock becomes improved enough so that the program isn't needed. > >One nice thing about being done with the program is that I no longer have >14 >pianos in their first year of life to contend with. > >Aaron > >At 12:16 PM 6/7/2012, you wrote: > > > >On 6/7/2012 10:42 AM, James Schmitt wrote: > > > > >The thing that I find so hard about >the piano exchange programs to start out with is that they tend to >leave the school dependent on the program without a way out. > > >This is the intent. Yamaha set this program up to sell pianos, not to >support schools or dealers. >Ron N > > >------------------------------------------ >Aaron Bousel >Registered Piano Technician, Piano Technicians Guild >abousel at comcast.net >(413) 253-3846 (voice & fax) > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20120607/177e4e9d/attachme >nt-0001.htm> > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 16:04:54 -0700 >From: James Schmitt <pianotenor at comcast.net> >To: PTG Caut <caut at ptg.org> >Subject: [CAUT] University loan programs >Message-ID: <BA7C1009-D42D-4C13-9996-65443FE90DCA at comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >There are some very simply guidelines I have for my Universities and >colleges. >1. The program needs to be with a dealer and only with a dealer. >2. Part of the program needs to be a profit share where every piano that >is sold during a sale has a portion of the proceeds given to the school. >That way it does not matter if the piano was at the school or not. The >sold piano profits the school. >3. The dealer needs to be free to place any piano at the school. The >dean and the dealer work that out. >4. The dealer must agree to pay for at least 4 service calls a year per >piano with the service being paid for from the sale proceeds. >5. The sale needs to happen at the dealers where every advantage can be >given for a profitable sale. Not at the school. I am always at the sale >to represent the school along with a member or two from the faculty. >6. The school, given the above dealers commitments, needs to deliver an >agreed upon number of contacts for sales persons to use in promoting the >sale. It shows a willingness on the part of the school to support a >local dealer and for a dealer to support a school. > >This program worked very well for both the school and the dealer until >the economy went sideways. >James Schmitt BM, RPT > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 22:27:51 +0000 >From: Paul Williams <pwilliams4 at unl.edu> >To: "caut at ptg.org" <caut at ptg.org> >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Yamaha Exchange program; pros, cons >Message-ID: <CBF69408.A205%pwilliams4 at unl.edu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > >Yup. As soon as you get them close to nice. Then off they go! I didn't >do it with Yamaha's either?.some other SE Asian pianos not looked upon as >'good' back in the late 80's and early 90's. You remember action spread >and fallboards that never closed right?? That was my world for a couple >years?..a couple was too long, too! > >Paul > > >From: Jerry Groot <tunerboy3 at comcast.net<mailto:tunerboy3 at comcast.net>> >Reply-To: "caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org>" ><caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org>> >Date: Thursday, June 7, 2012 5:05 PM >To: "caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org>" ><caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org>> >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Yamaha Exchange program; pros, cons > >My college did this for 17 years or more. Each year, we were getting >between 30 & 35 new pianos brought in. At first it was a good deal all >the way around. ?Free pianos to use for one year but for the cost of the >tunings.? Sales were up, so the dealer sold a lot of units every year >during their yearly sale and of course, the college saved a considerable >amount of money in repair work, literally thousands of dollars. > >We did notdo it with Yamaha. It was another brand. > >While getting new pianos every year does have its upside, a warranty >being one positive thing, there is a downside to it. Dealing with all of >the issues that continually crop up every single year with new pianos. >One problem we encountered most of the time, were pianos that were being >delivered totally un-prepped. Often, uncrated right on the spot?. You >know what that means? A lot of extra work! Major pitch raises and a lot >of prep work. > >We also encountered frequent problems with the pianos. Things from >bobbling hammers to blocking hammers 6 months later, to sticking keys and >loose hammer heads and butts. Of course we also had pianos where the >tuning changed rather quickly due to being brand new. Consequently, I >had dozens of emergency calls, one after the another until I could work >through all of the problems. Then, the pianos were sold and it started >all over again the following fall. That got old fast!!!!! > >We never had a real chance for the pianos to settle in. They were >delivered the last week in August and school is out the 2nd week of May. > >As the economy took a nose dive so did sales. Toward the end of the >sale, the rules changed for the college. To save money, they were made >to pay for a lot more things other than tunings?. That?s all I?ll say >about that. Due to that however, I talked them into ending the sale. We >chose to purchase over 26 new pianos and some digitals. It was still a >win-win for the dealer. But, for the college, I?m not so sure. They >spent tens of thousands replacing them. > >On the flip side though, in my opinion we are better off with pianos that >are ?being seasoned? and pianos that I can get to know permanently. >Pianos that I can fix and pianos that will stay fixed because they are >not rotated yearly. Plus, they hold tuning a whole lot better now! > >I wouldn?t recommend it, but then, we didn?t have Yamaha?s either?.. > >Jer > >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org<mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org> >[mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Bousel >Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 2:34 PM >To: caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org> >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Yamaha Exchange program; pros, cons > >I can agree with much of what has already been said. The reliability and >integrity of the dealer is very important. We had a program for many >years in which the department received 14 pianos each fall. Eleven >verticals (mostly P22, a few U1, and more recently some T118/120) and >three small grands. The department was required to buy one piano at the >end of the academic year and the dealer got to hold a sale at the Fine >Arts Center. The program was ended at the end of the 2009-2010 academic >year. The person who dealt with the dealership found them unreliable >(pianos never showed up when they were supposed to) and sometimes less >than honest. (I've never heard the dealer's side of things, however.) The >department chair effectively lobbied the dean and they were able to get >enough money in hand to buy new pianos to replace the loaners. Many were >bought through the same dealer so the dealer really couldn't complain. >The one thing I really liked about the program was that the depart > ment was forced to buy one new piano (it was always a P22) each year >which meant I could get rid of one old piano and was able to go some >distance in getting rid of some of the worst instruments. Having a forced >rotation of stock was a very good thing. With all the recently purchased >pianos the department doesn't have to get rid of anything immediately, >but that day will come and will be subject to the budgetary process in a >way that it wasn't before. > >One thought, to avoid getting into a situation where you're completely >dependent on the program, an institution could purchase more than the >required piano each year so that after a certain number of years the >instrument stock becomes improved enough so that the program isn't needed. > >One nice thing about being done with the program is that I no longer have >14 pianos in their first year of life to contend with. > >Aaron > >At 12:16 PM 6/7/2012, you wrote: > >On 6/7/2012 10:42 AM, James Schmitt wrote: > > >The thing that I find so hard about >the piano exchange programs to start out with is that they tend to >leave the school dependent on the program without a way out. > >This is the intent. Yamaha set this program up to sell pianos, not to >support schools or dealers. >Ron N > >------------------------------------------ >Aaron Bousel >Registered Piano Technician, Piano Technicians Guild >abousel at comcast.net<mailto:abousel at comcast.net> >(413) 253-3846 (voice & fax) >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20120607/67152220/attachme >nt.htm> > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >CAUT mailing list >CAUT at ptg.org >https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > >End of CAUT Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5 >***********************************
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