<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: HVAC</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <STYLE type=text/css>BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } </STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2722.900" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This whole problem is what gave rise to the notion of not placing a piano on an outside wall.  In the old houses without insulation there would be a cold spot behind the piano on an outside wall where moisture would condense & actually make a block of ice in the wall in some cases.  Insulated buildings w/out vapor barrier will allow the moisture to pass out until it freezes somewhere in the insulation, making a really big block of ice.  You can imagine what that does to the studs, etc. over time.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One of the houses we renovated (we seem cursed with the gift of seeing the potential in places -- ever done that with old pianos?) was so bad when we re-did the bathroom, that you could poke your finger through some of the studs.  Modern heating & construction methods have taken care of the "outside wall" problem, but created another problem of "sick buildings".  Given my druthers, I'druther yank the pitch around than breathe air that's been recycling from person to person since the building was built.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That having been said, the hygrometer in my shop (in the oldest building on campus -- ca. 1902) seems so be stuck somewhere around the 40% mark....and I ain't gonna fix it.  Misguided, perhaps, but it gives me peace of mind in these budget-cutting, shoot-the-messenger times.  If the money isn't there to fix it (& it isn't at the moment), but the problem is still extreme, maybe a load of humidity control systems are needed.  But be sure to budget in a work/study position to service the things, unless you want more paragraphs on your job description w/out compensatory pay.  They can be effective, but do need constant care.  After evidence of a $2mil. problem, a few thousand bucks & a work/study position may sound real cheap to them.  It's not ideal, but it may get the job done.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Otto</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=purdy@oak.cats.ohiou.edu href="mailto:purdy@oak.cats.ohiou.edu">Christopher D. Purdy</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 24, 2003 12:22 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: HVAC</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>In my original post, I am guilty of giving you all a VERY condensed version of the report that the company that did the assessment gave us.  This baby's some 70-80 pages long and very in depth.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Jeff Tanner wrote:</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite">Hi Chris,<BR>You wrote:<BR>>- If we install the proper equipment, the building walls have no<BR>>vapor barrier and therefor any increased humidity would simply go<BR>>through the walls and outside.  This would cause steel girders to<BR>>rust and the mortar in the brick to breakdown and actually stain.<BR>>(called efflorescence, for vocabulary buffs)<BR>><BR>>- Ditto for the roof.<BR><BR>I think I'm gonna call "BS" here.  What is your indoor RH during the<BR>summer?  and why would the effects of high summer RH on the steel girders<BR>and mortar be any different from trying to bring winter RH up to 42%?</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>This is not my field, obviously, but as I understand it the problem comes when the humidity, vapor for a better word, goes through the wall it comes into contact with cold, outside air.  It then condenses on interior surfaces and that is what will cause rusting of bare steel.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>This is a long term problem I take it.  I doubt the building would fall down after the first winter from rust and loose mortar. </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Eric Wolfley wrote:</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite">got the<BR>humidity up to 40% in the dead of winter. Everyone thanked me, the pianos<BR>didn't go 40 cents flat, and sounded good. Then all the bad building things<BR>started happening....during a below zero cold snap, all the windows iced up<BR>(1/4 inch thick on some), the doors had so much ice dripping off the bottom</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>that they wouldn't close, and so on.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>This, I believe, would be the most immediate problem in trying to humidify this building without vapor barriers and insulated, double glazed windows.  Everywhere that the humidified air comes into contact with cold, outside air, it will condensate and or freeze. </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Dale wrote what I think is the best solution so far:</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=-1><B>          A very good micro brew in a cold mug!</B></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=-1><B><BR></B></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=-1><B><BR></B></FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>-- </PRE></X-SIGSEP> <DIV><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=+2><B>Christopher D. Purdy R.P.T.<X-TAB>     </X-TAB><X-TAB>        </X-TAB></B></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=+2>School of Music, Ohio University<X-TAB>        </X-TAB><X-TAB>        </X-TAB></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=+2>Athens, Ohio  45701<X-TAB>     </X-TAB><X-TAB>        </X-TAB><X-TAB>        </X-TAB></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=+2><B>(740) 593-1656</B></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=+2>fax (740) 593-1429</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=+2>purdy@ohiou.edu</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>