<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1543" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; khtml-nbsp-mode: space; khtml-line-break: after-white-space" bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Lance,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To my knowledge string - hammer mating was never done on the level ( sorry ) that it is today.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It was more a mater of mating the hammer to whatever the strings were. Sorry if there was a problem when the una corda pedal was used.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It may have been Fazioli who was the first to use a level on their instruments. There level was / is </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a piece of brass H channel with a vial in the top and the base cut so it will cover just one unison.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Very light and for me too light. When one plucks the string too hard to test for good mating, the level tends to bounce off the unison.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I introduced my first level at the Orlando national. It was way too light. Only 10 were made.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We settled on using a brass blank that weighs about 45 grams and with the vial almost 50 grams.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The only real change in the brass model was to use a thinner vial so that the tool would stand up a little better to dropage without the vial popping off.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT<BR>Mother Goose Tools<BR><A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=lafargue@bellsouth.net href="mailto:lafargue@bellsouth.net">lafargue@bellsouth.net</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">'College and University Technicians'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:42 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=890363614-19072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>At the beginning of this thread I was concerned about an Estonia with tilted agraffes and uneven agraffe/string holes.  It was to the point that I couldn't bend a string enough to compensate for good string/hammer mating. I have seen this on other pianos, but not this much.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=890363614-19072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=890363614-19072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It would be interesting to know who makes agraffes and are the plate makers aware of the importance of a level plane (duh, probably).  With the increase in our world-wide market for parts now, I wonder who makes them.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=890363614-19072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=890363614-19072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The bottom line is that you cannot prep a piano to a high level without this to lay a foundation on.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoAutoSig align=left>Lance Lafargue, RPT<o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face=Benguiat>LAFARGUE PIANOS, LTD<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Bradley Hand ITC'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoAutoSig>New Orleans Chapter, PTG<o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoAutoSig>985.72P.IANO<o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoAutoSig><o:p><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="mailto:lafargue@bellsouth.net">lafargue@bellsouth.net</A></FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoAutoSig><o:p><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.lpianos.com/">www.lpianos.com</A></FONT></o:p></P> <P class=MsoAutoSig><o:p><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.lafarguepianos.com/"></A></FONT></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoAutoSig><o:p></o:p> </P> <P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Fred Sturm<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:53 AM<BR><B>To:</B> College and University Technicians<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>I don't know where Steinway buys agraffes, but they now own Kelly Plate, and they have upgraded that facility to install a computer controlled drilling process. The spacing of agraffes in new pianos is MUCH better in the past two to three years. I suspect the square of the holes (hence lack of cant of the agraffes) is much better, too - I haven't noticed much trouble leveling strings on the few new instruments I have serviced. They used to have Kelly drill their plates. Bad idea.  <DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></SPAN>All that said, perfection of hole drilling in cast iron is iffy at best. The unevenness of the material itself causes bits to chatter, at least in my experience. It's not like drilling brass.<BR> <DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Fred Sturm</DIV> <DIV>University of New Mexico</DIV> <DIV><A href="mailto:fssturm@unm.edu">fssturm@unm.edu</A></DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV> <DIV>On Jul 17, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Willem Blees wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>It sounds like we're talking about two different issues. One is the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>level of the agraff itself, compared to the level of the of the plate.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>What you claiming is that the plane of the agraff holes are not level<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>with the plate. Which could be caused by poor drilling, or that the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>counter sink of the agraff hole is not flat, which will cause the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>agraff to cant to one side when it is tightened.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica"><BR></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>The other issue is the holes in the agraff, which is what I was<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>referrring to. Although there might be very minute differnces in the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>plane of the holes compared to the top of the agraff, I think the holes<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>themselves are level.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica"><BR></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>BTW, does Steinway make their own agraffs, or are they outsourced?</FONT></P> <P style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica"><BR></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>Wim<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>Willem Blees, RPT</FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>Piano Tuner/Technician</FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>School of Music</FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>University of Alabama</FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>Tuscaloosa, AL USA</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>