<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=GENERATOR><o:SmartTagType name="country-region" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="State" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="PlaceName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="PlaceType" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Helvetica; } @font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @font-face { font-family: Baskerville Old Face; } @font-face { font-family: Bradley Hand ITC; } @font-face { font-family: Benguiat; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } SPAN.EmailStyle22 { FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: "Baskerville Old Face"; TEXT-DECORATION: none; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; khtml-nbsp-mode: space; khtml-line-break: after-white-space" vLink=blue link=blue bgColor=white> <DIV>so joe should now sell a base extension for those hard to reach areas.  I can never do the strut adjacent notes very well, which are usually the most troublesome.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> Lance Lafargue, RPT<o:p></o:p> LAFARGUE PIANOS, LTD<o:p></o:p> New Orleans Chapter, PTG<o:p></o:p> 985.72P.IANO<o:p></o:p> <o:p><A href="mailto:lafargue@bellsouth.net">lafargue@bellsouth.net</A></o:p> <o:p><A href="http://www.lpianos.com/">www.lpianos.com</A></o:p> <o:p><A href="http://www.lafarguepianos.com/"></A></o:p>  <o:p></o:p>  <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Becker, Lawrence (beckerlr) Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 7:40 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> Joe-<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I have a way that works for me to use your bubble gauge near the struts and where there isn’t room between the dampers and v-bar.  I use a short section of flat brass that has been squared at both ends.  Stand it upright on the strings just in front of the damper, with the bottom of the level in solid contact with the top of the brass piece.  I center the bubble, then pluck the strings.  (Different than sitting the gauge on the strings and seeing where the bubble goes.)  Trying to hold both pieces in one hand might feel a little fumbly at first, but if I can do it, so can most other folks.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Lawrence</st1:place></st1:City> Becker, RPT<o:p></o:p> Piano Technician<o:p></o:p> College-Conservatory of Music<o:p></o:p> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Cincinnati</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Joe And Penny Goss Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:45 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Hi Should have proofed<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Their<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> The thinner vial is inserted into a hole drilled into the 1/4" body of the level with a window that helps make certain the tool is used in the same orientation each and every time.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> The most often asked question?<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> "Does the piano need to be level?"<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Yes, but only to determine if the bubble is in the window. If it is, level to the same spot.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> If it is not, one needs to shim a leg.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> With uneven agraff,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> level the strings to the foot of the tool with the least slant, and file the hammer to mate the string.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> At the struts often one or two unisons can not be leveled with the foot. Eric Schandall showed me how he lays the level on its side under the strut to reach these strings. <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Eric has purchased 20 or so levels. I think he gives them away to folks who attend Steinway seminars and do not have one <g><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Joe Goss RPT Mother Goose Tools <A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A> <A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A><o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV> ----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV style="font-color: black"> From: <A title=imatunr@srvinet.com href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">Joe And Penny Goss</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> To: <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:16 PM<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <DIV> Hi Lance,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> To my knowledge string - hammer mating was never done on the level ( sorry ) that it is today.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> It was more a mater of mating the hammer to whatever the strings were. Sorry if there was a problem when the una corda pedal was used.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> It may have been Fazioli who was the first to use a level on their instruments. There level was / is <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> a piece of brass H channel with a vial in the top and the base cut so it will cover just one unison.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Very light and for me too light. When one plucks the string too hard to test for good mating, the level tends to bounce off the unison.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> I introduced my first level at the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Orlando</st1:place></st1:City> national. It was way too light. Only 10 were made.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> We settled on using a brass blank that weighs about 45 grams and with the vial almost 50 grams.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> The only real change in the brass model was to use a thinner vial so that the tool would stand up a little better to dropage without the vial popping off.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Joe Goss RPT Mother Goose Tools <A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A> <A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A><o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV> ----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV style="font-color: black"> From: <A title=lafargue@bellsouth.net href="mailto:lafargue@bellsouth.net">lafargue@bellsouth.net</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> To: <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">'College and University Technicians'</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:42 AM<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <DIV> At the beginning of this thread I was concerned about an <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Estonia</st1:place></st1:country-region> with tilted agraffes and uneven agraffe/string holes.  It was to the point that I couldn't bend a string enough to compensate for good string/hammer mating. I have seen this on other pianos, but not this much.  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> It would be interesting to know who makes agraffes and are the plate makers aware of the importance of a level plane (duh, probably).  With the increase in our world-wide market for parts now, I wonder who makes them.  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> The bottom line is that you cannot prep a piano to a high level without this to lay a foundation on.  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Lance Lafargue, RPT<o:p></o:p> LAFARGUE PIANOS, LTD<o:p></o:p> <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New Orleans</st1:place></st1:City> Chapter, PTG<o:p></o:p> 985.72P.IANO<o:p></o:p> <A href="mailto:lafargue@bellsouth.net">lafargue@bellsouth.net</A><o:p></o:p> <A href="http://www.lpianos.com/">www.lpianos.com</A><o:p></o:p> <A href="http://www.lafarguepianos.com/"></A> <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:53 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels<o:p></o:p> I don't know where Steinway buys agraffes, but they now own Kelly Plate, and they have upgraded that facility to install a computer controlled drilling process. The spacing of agraffes in new pianos is MUCH better in the past two to three years. I suspect the square of the holes (hence lack of cant of the agraffes) is much better, too - I haven't noticed much trouble leveling strings on the few new instruments I have serviced. They used to have Kelly drill their plates. Bad idea.  <o:p></o:p> <DIV> All that said, perfection of hole drilling in cast iron is iffy at best. The unevenness of the material itself causes bits to chatter, at least in my experience. It's not like drilling brass.<o:p></o:p> <DIV> <DIV> Regards,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Fred Sturm<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <A href="mailto:fssturm@unm.edu">fssturm@unm.edu</A><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> <DIV> On Jul 17, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Willem Blees wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p></o:p> It sounds like we're talking about two different issues. One is the <o:p></o:p> level of the agraff itself, compared to the level of the of the plate. <o:p></o:p> What you claiming is that the plane of the agraff holes are not level <o:p></o:p> with the plate. Which could be caused by poor drilling, or that the <o:p></o:p> counter sink of the agraff hole is not flat, which will cause the <o:p></o:p> agraff to cant to one side when it is tightened. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The other issue is the holes in the agraff, which is what I was <o:p></o:p> referrring to. Although there might be very minute differnces in the <o:p></o:p> plane of the holes compared to the top of the agraff, I think the holes <o:p></o:p> themselves are level. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> BTW, does Steinway make their own agraffs, or are they outsourced?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Wim <o:p></o:p> Willem Blees, RPT<o:p></o:p> Piano Tuner/Technician<o:p></o:p> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">School</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Music</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Alabama</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Tuscaloosa</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">AL</st1:State> <st1:country-region w:st="on">USA</st1:country-region></st1:place><o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>