<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2995" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Jim,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>One common reason for string breakage is that the speaking length of the string is not correct.  If that is the case then increasing or changing the diameter will have no effect. I don't offhand know the calculation but I do remember that it is independent of the diameter of the string. I remember that a few years ago we, on the list, people predicted the pitch at which different size diameters of strings would break for note C8.  If I remember correctly we verified this result. It made no difference what the string diameter was they all broke around the same pitch.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006></SPAN><SPAN class=071270815-26112006></SPAN><SPAN class=071270815-26112006></SPAN><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>  Let me suggest that you restring the section or sections and modify the bridge with Wapin.  Very easy to do if you're restringing anyway.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>I'm not sure about this and perhaps Eric or Lawrence could respond.  There are a number of practice room pianos at CCM that have Wapin on them.  I have a hunch that Wapin will also reduce string breakage.  The practice room pianos have had Wapin on them for over ten years now.  I wonder if the string breakage is less on these pianos.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Michael Wathen</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=071270815-26112006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>pianomanwo@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> caut@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] caut Digest, Vol 1092, Issue 50<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Hi Bill</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am replying to the problem of strings breaking on the <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Kawai</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">KG2</SPAN></SPAN> e,c,d,<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">ect</SPAN></SPAN>. Changing the strings will not eliminate the problem, but it will slow up at first. what seems to have worked for me is when I <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">restrung</SPAN></SPAN> the piano I went down 1/2 size on the wire and gage them slightly heavy <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">letoff</SPAN></SPAN> and have lost only 4 strings in 10</DIV> <DIV>years This piano is in a heavy used classroom.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Walter <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Oventrop</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">RPT</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">SLPS</SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: caut-request@ptg.org<BR>To: caut@ptg.org<BR>Sent: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 1:00 PM<BR>Subj<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">ect</SPAN></SPAN>: caut Digest, <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Vol</SPAN></SPAN> 1092, Issue 50<BR><BR> <STYLE>.AOLPlainTextBody { FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff } .AOLPlainTextBody PRE { FONT-SIZE: 9pt } .AOLInlineAttachment { MARGIN: 10px } .AOLAttachmentHeader { BORDER-RIGHT: #7da8d4 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #7da8d4 1px solid; BACKGROUND: #f9f9f9; FONT: 11px arial; BORDER-LEFT: #7da8d4 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #7da8d4 1px solid } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; BACKGROUND: #b5ddfa; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; FONT: 11px arial; PADDING-TOP: 3px } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 9px; BACKGROUND: #f9f9f9; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1px; FONT: 11px arial; COLOR: #000000; PADDING-TOP: 1px } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { BACKGROUND: #f9f9f9; FONT: 11px arial; COLOR: #000000 } .AOLAttachmentHeader A { COLOR: #2864b4; TEXT-DECORATION: none } .AOLImage A { COLOR: #2864b4; TEXT-DECORATION: none } .AOLAttachmentHeader A:hover { COLOR: #2864b4; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } .AOLImage A:hover { COLOR: #2864b4; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } BODY { BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: "Verdana"; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white } P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } IMG.managedImg { WIDTH: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px } IMG.placeholder { BORDER-RIGHT: #dadad6 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #dadad6 1px solid; BACKGROUND: #f4f4f4 no-repeat center center; BORDER-LEFT: #dadad6 1px solid; WIDTH: 275px; BORDER-BOTTOM: #dadad6 1px solid; HEIGHT: 206px } </STYLE> <DIV class=AOLPlainTextBody id=AOLMsgPart_1_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab><PRE><TT>Send caut mailing list submissions to <A href="mailto:caut%40ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</A> To subscribe or <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">unsubscribe</SPAN></SPAN> via the World Wide Web, visit <A href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" target=_blank>https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</A> or, via email, send a message with subj<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">ect</SPAN></SPAN> or body 'help' to <A href="mailto:caut-request%40ptg.org">caut-request@ptg.org</A> You can reach the person managing the list at <A href="mailto:caut-owner%40ptg.org">caut-owner@ptg.org</A> When replying, please edit your Subj<SPAN class=correction id="">ect</SPAN> line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of caut digest..." </TT></PRE></DIV> <DIV class=AOLPlainTextBody id=AOLMsgPart_2_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab><PRE><TT>Today's Topics: 1. Re: breaking strings, <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Kawai</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">KG-2A</SPAN></SPAN> (1997) (Jim <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Busby</SPAN></SPAN>) </TT></PRE></DIV> <DIV class=AOLInlineAttachment id=AOLMsgPart_4_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab> <DIV class=AOLAttachmentHeader> <DIV class=Title>Attached Message</DIV> <TABLE id=Table1> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD class=FieldLabel noWrap>From:</TD> <TD class=FieldValue>jim_<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">busby</SPAN></SPAN>@byu.edu</TD></TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD class=FieldLabel>To:</TD> <TD class=FieldValue>caut@ptg.org</TD></TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD class=FieldLabel>Subj<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">ect</SPAN></SPAN>:</TD> <TD class=FieldValue>Re: [CAUT] breaking strings, <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Kawai</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">KG-2A</SPAN></SPAN> (1997)</TD></TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD class=FieldLabel>Date:</TD> <TD class=FieldValue id=AttachedMessageDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:20 PM</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV> <SCRIPT> var messageDate = "Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:20:28 -0700"; messageDate = messageDate.replace(/Eastern Daylight Time/i,"EDT"); messageDate = messageDate.replace(/Eastern Standard Time/i,"EST"); MessageDateMiliSeconds = Date.parse(messageDate); if (isNaN(MessageDateMiliSeconds)) { FormattedmessageDate = messageDate; } else { FormattedmessageDate = top.DateFormat.FormatDate(new Date(messageDate), top.Config.Strings.MsgViewDateFormat, false); } document.getElementById("AttachedMessageDate").innerHTML = FormattedmessageDate; </SCRIPT> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_7_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab> <STYLE></STYLE> <DIV class=Section1> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I haven’t measured it but the angle looks “normal” (within range), but I will check it along with the other things you mentioned. Good list.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We keep the hammers shaped and voiced regularly so I don’t believe it is that. Since it is mostly the <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Kawais</SPAN></SPAN> that break more I’m suspicious of “scaling anomalies” and such, but since having several “CAUT witnesses” of the string fatigue diagnosis my bet is it’s probably that. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks again,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Busby</SPAN></SPAN> BYU</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> caut-bounces@ptg.org [<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">mailto</SPAN></SPAN>:caut-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Geoffrey Pollard<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, November 23, 2006 4:23 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> College and University Technicians<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subj<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">ect</SPAN></SPAN>:</SPAN></B> Re: [CAUT] breaking strings, <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Kawai</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">KG-2A</SPAN></SPAN> (1997)</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hello Jim,<BR><BR>I would try to get a good handle on front duplex to capo string angles as part of information gathering during rescaling. It is not unknown for this angle to be excessive in <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Kawai</SPAN></SPAN> piano trebles at times. If the angles are OK (11 - 20 degrees - perhaps using Ron <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">N's</SPAN></SPAN> device shown in his 9/11/06 post on this list) - then wire fatigue, hard hammers, flat hammers, scaling anomalies, capo profile, string cushion friction (in no particular order) are some likely culprits in my view.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Geoffrey Pollard<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: caut-bounces@ptg.org on behalf of Jim <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Busby</SPAN></SPAN><BR>Sent: Tue 11/21/2006 12:20 PM<BR>To: College and University Technicians<BR>Subj<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">ect</SPAN></SPAN>: [CAUT] breaking strings, <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Kawai</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">KG-2A</SPAN></SPAN> (1997)<BR><BR>List,<BR><BR><BR><BR>We have four <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">KG-2As</SPAN></SPAN> that now break strings regularly (weekly) in octaves<BR>5-7. The bass is also becoming "<SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">thumpy</SPAN></SPAN>". Granted, they are very heavily<BR>used (Up to 17 hours a day), but we try to keep them voiced and<BR>regulated so I don't believe maintenance is the issue; I think the<BR>strings are simply fatigued. (I can break strings myself with 20 - 30<BR>good solid blows.) I tried decreasing the blow to give a bit less power<BR>hoping that it would diminish the breakage, and that helps somewhat, but<BR>I don't like to sabotage piano performance just so I can work less...<BR>BTW, the strings break mainly at the v-bar.<BR><BR><BR><BR>I will be <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">restringing</SPAN></SPAN> these pianos next month (I've HAD IT with them...)<BR>so does anyone have any advice concerning the scaling, etc.? I will be<BR>dressing the V-bar and doing all the usual prepping. This is a high<BR>tension scale and I'd love to redesign it but don't want to put that<BR>kind of time and money into these...<BR><BR><BR><BR>Any helps out there???<BR><BR><BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Jim <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">Busby</SPAN></SPAN> BYU<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV class=AOLPlainTextBody id=AOLMsgPart_8_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab><PRE><TT>_______________________________________________ caut list info: <A href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" target=_blank>https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</A> </TT></PRE></DIV> <DIV class=AOLPromoFooter> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> <A href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target=_blank><B>Check out the new AOL</B></A>. 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