<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> <o:p> </o:p> Hi Michael,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Interesting. Juan Mas Cabre (Pure Sound Wire) said the same thing. He can’t rescale most Asian pianos for Pure Sound wire because of the high tension scale. He has helped me redesign a piano with that problem (a 5’ 4” Vose & Sons), and moving the bridge only as much as 4 mm has resulted in big dividends in some spots. Of course, I’m not going to redesign the long bridge/soundboard with all it’s implications for a fairly inexpensive practice piano. Especially one that is less than ten years old… (While it’s still Shiny we’ll probably sell it while we can get the best price.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Also interesting is that we’ve noticed that our 3 Wapin pianos (An SD10, D and M) don’t break strings. They were done about ten years (or so) ago. Why would that be?? I just talked with Vince and we might have him “Wapinize” one or more of the Kawais. This may be one of the things I’ve been looking for, besides the other advantages I see with Wapin; improved sustain, tone, etc.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I would like to see what Eric and Lawrence have to say. This may not be a “magic bullet” but it would be a big deal if Wapin could significantly diminish string breakage. It will probably get you into more controversy over “is this science” or not… but hey, if it works I’m there!<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Jim Busby RPT<o:p></o:p> BYU<o:p></o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Michael Wathen Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:19 AM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [CAUT] caut Digest, Vol 1092, Issue 50<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Jim,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> One common reason for string breakage is that the speaking length of the string is not correct.  If that is the case then increasing or changing the diameter will have no effect. I don't offhand know the calculation but I do remember that it is independent of the diameter of the string. I remember that a few years ago we, on the list, people predicted the pitch at which different size diameters of strings would break for note C8.  If I remember correctly we verified this result. It made no difference what the string diameter was they all broke around the same pitch.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>   Let me suggest that you restring the section or sections and modify the bridge with Wapin.  Very easy to do if you're restringing anyway.  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I'm not sure about this and perhaps Eric or Lawrence could respond.  There are a number of practice room pianos at CCM that have Wapin on them.  I have a hunch that Wapin will also reduce string breakage.  The practice room pianos have had Wapin on them for over ten years now.  I wonder if the string breakage is less on these pianos.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Michael Wathen<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of pianomanwo@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:51 AM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] caut Digest, Vol 1092, Issue 50<o:p></o:p> <div> Hi Bill<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I am replying to the problem of strings breaking on the Kawai KG2 e,c,d,ect. Changing the strings will not eliminate the problem, but it will slow up at first. what seems to have worked for me is when I restrung the piano I went down 1/2 size on the wire and gage them slightly heavy letoff and have lost only 4 strings in 10<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> years This piano is in a heavy used classroom.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Walter Oventrop RPT SLPS <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div>   -----Original Message----- From: caut-request@ptg.org To: caut@ptg.org Sent: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 1:00 PM Subject: caut Digest, Vol 1092, Issue 50<o:p></o:p> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab"> <tt>Send caut mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></tt> <tt>    <a href="mailto:caut%40ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a><o:p></o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt>To subscribe or </tt>unsubscribe<tt> via the World Wide Web, visit<o:p></o:p></tt> <tt>    <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" target="_blank">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a><o:p></o:p></tt> <tt>or, via email, send a message with subj</tt>ect<tt> or body 'help' to<o:p></o:p></tt> <tt>    <a href="mailto:caut-request%40ptg.org">caut-request@ptg.org</a><o:p></o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt>You can reach the person managing the list at<o:p></o:p></tt> <tt>    <a href="mailto:caut-owner%40ptg.org">caut-owner@ptg.org</a><o:p></o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt>When replying, please edit your Subj</tt>ect<tt> line so it is more specific<o:p></o:p></tt> <tt>than "Re: Contents of caut digest..."<o:p></o:p></tt> </div>  <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab"> <tt>Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt><o:p> </o:p></tt> <tt>   1. Re: breaking strings, </tt>Kawai<tt> </tt>KG-2A<tt> (1997) (Jim </tt>Busby<tt>)<o:p></o:p></tt> </div>  <div style='margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-bottom: 7.5pt' id="AOLMsgPart_4_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab"> <div> <div> Attached Message<o:p></o:p> </div> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 id=Table1> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding: .75pt 7.5pt .75pt 6.75pt'> From:<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> jim_busby@byu.edu<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding:.75pt 7.5pt .75pt 6.75pt'> To:<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> caut@ptg.org<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding:.75pt 7.5pt .75pt 6.75pt'> Subject:<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Re: [CAUT] breaking strings, Kawai KG-2A (1997)<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding:.75pt 7.5pt .75pt 6.75pt'> Date:<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top bgcolor="#F9F9F9" style='background:#F9F9F9;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt' id=AttachedMessageDate> Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:20 PM<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table> </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_7_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab"> <div> <div> <script> var messageDate = "Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:20:28 -0700"; messageDate = messageDate.replace(/Eastern Daylight Time/i,"EDT"); messageDate = messageDate.replace(/Eastern Standard Time/i,"EST"); MessageDateMiliSeconds = Date.parse(messageDate); if (isNaN(MessageDateMiliSeconds)) { FormattedmessageDate = messageDate; } else { FormattedmessageDate = top.DateFormat.FormatDate(new Date(messageDate), top.Config.Strings.MsgViewDateFormat, false); } document.getElementById("AttachedMessageDate").innerHTML = FormattedmessageDate; </script>Hi,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I haven’t measured it but the angle looks “normal” (within range), but I will check it along with the other things you mentioned. Good list.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> We keep the hammers shaped and voiced regularly so I don’t believe it is that. Since it is mostly the Kawais that break more I’m suspicious of “scaling anomalies” and such, but since having several “CAUT witnesses” of the string fatigue diagnosis my bet is it’s probably that. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Thanks again,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Jim Busby BYU<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> <div> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Pollard Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 4:23 AM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [CAUT] breaking strings, Kawai KG-2A (1997)<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> Hello Jim, I would try to get a good handle on front duplex to capo string angles as part of information gathering during rescaling. It is not unknown for this angle to be excessive in Kawai piano trebles at times. If the angles are OK (11 - 20 degrees - perhaps using Ron N's device shown in his 9/11/06 post on this list) - then wire fatigue, hard hammers, flat hammers, scaling anomalies, capo profile, string cushion friction (in no particular order) are some likely culprits in my view. Regards, Geoffrey Pollard -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org on behalf of Jim Busby Sent: Tue 11/21/2006 12:20 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> Subject: [CAUT] breaking strings, Kawai KG-2A (1997) List, We have four KG-2As that now break strings regularly (weekly) in octaves 5-7. The bass is also becoming "thumpy". Granted, they are very heavily used (Up to 17 hours a day), but we try to keep them voiced and regulated so I don't believe maintenance is the issue; I think the strings are simply fatigued. (I can break strings myself with 20 - 30 good solid blows.) I tried decreasing the blow to give a bit less power hoping that it would diminish the breakage, and that helps somewhat, but I don't like to sabotage piano performance just so I can work less... BTW, the strings break mainly at the v-bar. I will be restringing these pianos next month (I've HAD IT with them...) so does anyone have any advice concerning the scaling, etc.? I will be dressing the V-bar and doing all the usual prepping. This is a high tension scale and I'd love to redesign it but don't want to put that kind of time and money into these... Any helps out there??? Thanks. Jim Busby BYU <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </div> </div>  <div id="AOLMsgPart_8_1af9a9f1-93f8-4c43-ba6d-8e90087db2ab"> <tt>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></tt> <tt>caut list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" target="_blank">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a><o:p></o:p></tt> </div>  <div> <div style='margin-top:7.5pt'> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> </div> <a href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target="_blank">Check out the new AOL</a>. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.<o:p></o:p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </body> </html>