<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space'> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Re: [CAUT] New Upright Pianos</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>On Feb 10, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Barbara Richmond wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Greetings all:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style='min-height: 14px'> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>While we're on the subject, a friend asked me to compare Yamaha U-3s with Steinway URs.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Uh, I don't even know what a Steinway UR is, just that I usually try to avoid Steinway uprights in general (but maybe they've improved lately!).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>I cut my teeth on Steinway 45s (or 1098s or whatever they are). Once you learn how to work with them, or at least accept them, they're much easier to appreciate. But avoiding them simply because you'd rather tune a Yamaha because it's easier isn't giving the Steinway much of a chance out of the starting gate. And don't expect it to be like tuning a Yamaha or a Kawai, or a <st1:City w:st="on">Boston</st1:City> or a Walter, or a <st1:place w:st="on">Baldwin</st1:place>, because any of those, it isn't. You have to accept the instrument for what it is and work with it. Yes. Steinway verticals can be aggravating to tune. Some, more so than others, and especially when they're new. But once you put that front board back on, take off your technician's hat and put on your musician's hat, it is a much different story. All that noise somehow turns into a reliable, very stable, and pretty decent sounding musical instrument.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>And I'm sorry, what David Porritt wrote, quoting Ron N, is just completely off base. The people who own 1098s love them. It doesn't matter why. They just do. And those people tend to find Yamaha verticals leave much to be desired. I especially don't get the big hoopla over the U3. It is very creamy. In fact, all cream. No coffee. No tea. No peaches. No cookies. Just... ...plain... ...cream.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>The argument against the Yamahas (given by the Steinway dealer) is the Steinways will last a lot longer. These pianos would be used in a university, but I'm not sure if they are for practice rooms or studios.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Anyway, I think it's hard to beat Yamaha in consistency and I wonder (and what I would be concerned about is) what the condition the Steinway hammers are in regarding lacquering--and then there are those center pin bushings...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>I can't in good conscience responsibly agree with much of anything that has been said on this thread. When I look at the P2s and P202s in my client base and compare them to the 1098/45s from the same time and even years older, there is no way I could ever come to a sober conclusion that the Steinway doesn't hold up better over time than the Yamaha. The same would have to be said for G1's, G2s, G3s, and C3's versus Steinway S, M and L, even with teflon. Sure, the atoms will all still be there years from now on both pianos, but give me a practice room beaten 40 year old 1098 over a P2 that's been used a couple hours a week in a church any day.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Folks, we're talking about mass produced pianos built for the lower priced market by a company accustomed to its customers throwing pianos away after 25 or 30 years, versus artist grade instruments built with superior materials, and built to be rebuilt again and again by a company that has been building pianos for world class artists since 1854. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Steinway marketing myth my behind. I don't see people lining up to pay 5 times the original selling price for 35-40 (or 80 to 100) year old Yamaha pianos and then investing more money to get us to rebuild them. And I definitely don't see how that can be blamed on Steinway's marketing department. Yamaha's main market niche is for disposable pianos, and they are priced accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>I have nothing against the Yamaha product or the company. But we're not talking about apples and apples here. If we were talking about Yamaha's artist series instruments, you might have a good debate. But Yamaha has shot itself in the foot for not marketing them more diligently. Or perhaps it can't sell them. For Yamaha to make a piano in Steinway's quality range, they have to charge 30%-40% more. Unless, of course, you're looking at a used one.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>You've actually got to hand it to Steinway. The Steinway factory is located in one of the most expensive cities in the world, with one of the highest costs of living anywhere. And despite labor unions, and difficult hazardous materials restrictions, they manage to build a world class piano which sells for a lower cost than any of the Asians can do it. And it has survived the American economy for over 150 years. That is no easy feat considering it survived a civil war, two world wars and a dozen or more year long economic depression that wiped out almost every American piano manufacturer. I'm tired of hearing them berated the way they are.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Our customers like Steinway. Performing artists like Steinway. Our university faculties prefer Steinway. Steinway doesn't have to loan their pianos for free for a year to get universities to use them, and they don't have to pay artists for endorsements. This is not Steinway marketing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>I really don't see how anyone could come to any different conclusion, unless that someone truly can't appreciate the difference. Then, I suppose, it doesn't matter.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Jeff Tanner, RPT<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on"><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica; color:black'>University</span></font></st1:PlaceType><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica; color:black'> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">South Carolina</st1:PlaceName></span></font></st1:place><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family: Helvetica;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:navy'>Thanks for your comments, Jeff.  I tune and tech for a local dealer that carries Steinway, a line of nice Japanese pianos, and a price point Chinese product.  2%-the Steinway inventory-creates as much attention as the 98%.  The attention is not the advertising, prep work, etc.  It is the awe of the consumer walking into the store and up to a world class instrument whose name does not include “piano.”   Just say “Steinway” to anyone in music.  They know it’s a piano.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Paul C<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html>