<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">We currently have one Steinway D with each type of caster on stage at Meany Hall (the large performance hall). That is, the older piano has a (new) set of the Darnell heavy-duty casters, and the newer piano has a set of Hamburg-style legs and casters purchased from Steinway with the instrument last summer. Interestingly, noone has, so far, indicated a strong preference for one over the other.<DIV> </DIV><DIV>Understand that the stage has almost nothing in the way of discontinuity. Smooth maple, well-maintained pockets, etc. The only threshold is very small, metal, with beveled edge. And the pianos rarely go over it. Any facility with significant thresholds or carpets to go over would probably strongly prefer large wheels (Hamburg-style or truck).</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The Darnell casters are actually easier for small moves, or slightly changing the angle or placement of the piano. The big brass casters roll easily enough that once moving the piano could go off the edge...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Do note that the Steinway keybed (both NY and Hamburg) is flexible enough that the touch and balance rail glide settings will change with wheel position. If you go to the large caster, the wheel center is far enough from the stem center to flex the keybed!! So you buy into ALWAYS setting the wheels directly in front or directly behind the legs!!!!!</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>It is also a good idea to have two locking casters, and use the locks as appropriate.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The short legs for the new piano came separate (we have both sets here) from the piano, and without hardware installed. It was a bit of sweaty work to drill for socket and locking plate screws. And one must fit the locking plate properly. (!!) A couple of hours, I guess, by the time I was all done.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>All in all, a bit expensive and time-consuming. And still there is no agreement on preference, so I have not gone back to the original legs. If y'all would like, I can post to the stage hands for recent feedback.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The D that is in our small performance space just came off a Schroeder truck and back onto Darnell casters. This was mostly to lower the keyboard and pedals--we'd had complaints. But it turns out that the casters were sufficiently worn to not roll well. And it also seems that almost noone was paying attention to the caster locks. And so moving the piano with one or both on...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Do note that the Darnell casters will age, and beyond a certain age will be much more difficult to manage. You can replace them from Steinway for under $200, and from PianoTek for under $100, I believe.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>But all in all they are very nice casters and they keep it all simple.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Doug Wood, RPT</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>University of Washington School of Music</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> <DIV><DIV>On Apr 6, 2007, at 9:59 PM, Wolfley, Eric ((wolfleel)) wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"><DIV class="Section1">Thanks, Ken. This is most helpful and definitely seems the correct way to go.<O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "></O:P><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "> </O:P><DIV>Eric Wolfley, RPT<O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Kristen ITC; font-size: 13.3333px; font-style: italic; "></O:P>Supervising Piano Technician<O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Kristen ITC; font-size: 13.3333px; font-style: italic; "></O:P>College-Conservatory of Music<O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Kristen ITC; font-size: 13.3333px; font-style: italic; "></O:P><ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACETYPE w:st="on">University</ST1:PLACETYPE> of <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">Cincinnati</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Kristen ITC; font-size: 16px; font-style: italic; "></O:P></DIV><O:P style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.3333px; "> </O:P><DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "><HR size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"></DIV>From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [<A href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</A>] On Behalf Of Ken Zahringer Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 3:43 PM To: <ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on">College and University Technicians</ST1:PERSONNAME> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Legs<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></DIV><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "> </O:P>Hey, Eric, DON’T CUT THE SPADE OFF!!! OK, now that I have your attention, I just did this a few weeks ago. I had David Hughes talk me through it before I did it, and it came out OK. I installed the BIG casters from Pianoforte Supply.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P><OL start="1" type="1"><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">The bottom of my legs were really chewed up from being on a truck, and being moved (coming off and going back on the truck) a lot. I cut 3/4” of the bottom of each spade. This actually turned out to be good, as it somewhat preserved the proportion of the spade to the shorter leg.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">The leg comes in two parts: the shaft and the capital. David had another term for the top part, but I can’t remember what it was. I’ll say capital. The joint is a 3” long, 2” diameter blind wedged mortise and tenon. You want to separate the two parts and cut down the top of the shaft. The total leg length, including caster, must remain 24”, so you’ll be taking off something like 2”.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">Remove the leg plate. Drill a hole through the center point of the capital, which may not be the center of the plate recess, to gain access to the blind mortise. You’ll be cutting off the end of the tenon as well, so you can just keep drilling to take out the tenon wedge. This hole is for access for a ram, so make it big. I used a 1 3/8” spade bit. 1 1/2” wouldn’t be too much.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">Put some padding, like 3-4 thicknesses of furniture pad, on sawhorses or whatever you have available that’s sturdy. Brace the capital, letting the shaft hang free. Using a ram and a mallet, through the hole you drilled, drive the shaft out of the capital. I used a length of 3/4” black iron pipe with an end cap and a 20 oz hammer. A 3 lb mallet would have been better.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">On a band saw, cut the necessary amount off the top of the shaft, leaving the tenon intact. You’ll need to make a jig to hold the end of the tapered leg square to the blade. If you have an older D with the recessed panel legs, cut an extra 1/2” off the shaft, then make a 1/2” thick plate that will slide down over the tenon and replace the top border of the panel. Cut the end of the tenon off so it is again 3”overall.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">Now you have a leg the right length and a tenon that is part round and part square. Use a good sharp chisel to round off the bottom new part of the tenon, and extend the slot to the bottom on the band saw.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">Reassemble the leg. I used epoxy, since that old hide glue came apart way too easily. Insert a new wedge through the hole you drilled, and glue a plug in the hole. Drilling the hole probably damaged at least one of the plate screw holes, so you’ll have to deal with that. Drill whatever hole you need in the bottom of the leg for the caster, install the caster, and reinstall the plate.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI><LI class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; ">Touch up the finish at the top of the leg and you’re done.<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></LI></OL> I think that’s everything. It’s really not too bad; I did all three legs in a day. After most of a day of planning, that is. The alternative, of course, is to spend $800 or so on a new set of legs from Steinway. At my pay, I could have spent a week on the project and still come out a little cheaper. If you have any questions, call David. He’s <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on">Da</ST1:CITY> <ST1:STATE w:st="on">Man.</ST1:STATE></ST1:PLACE> Hope this helps, Ken Z. On 4/6/07 10:18 AM, "Wolfley, Eric (wolfleel)" <<A href="mailto:WOLFLEEL@ucmail.uc.edu">WOLFLEEL@ucmail.uc.edu</A>> wrote:<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P>I’m interested in hearing from anybody who has cut down legs to install some large brass casters on a S&S D. We have a couple of instruments that could really use this treatment here. I’ve looked at some really nice casters that Piano Forte Supply is selling… I don’t have a Hamburg D to look at here so I’m wondering how the “spade” part of the spade leg looks on those instruments. Does it just look like a NY leg that has been cut down or have they changed the proportions somehow. I’m concerned that the legs might not look right after we’ve spent all that money on them… Thanks, Eric<O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P> -- Ken Zahringer, RPT <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACETYPE w:st="on">University</ST1:PLACETYPE> of <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">Missouri</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE> <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACETYPE w:st="on">School</ST1:PLACETYPE> of <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">Music</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE><O:P style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; "></O:P></DIV></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>